Higher Ed Storytelling University

Sabrina (00:01.231)
I hear you. Yeah, definitely. So again, thanks for having me. I guess I'll start off by sharing I'm the Director of Marketing for MICA, Maryland Institute College of Art based in Baltimore, one of the oldest art and design colleges, continuously running art and design colleges in the country. I've been at MICA for a little over four and a half years where I started

Sabrina (00:28.995)
predominantly working within one of the academic areas called Open Studies. A lot of the universities and colleges call that area Continuing Education or Continuing Studies. And I was the, a couple different title changes, but essentially I was the Director of Marketing and Recruitment at Open Studies, and then Director of Brand Marketing at Open Studies, where I helped to create a brand platform for that academic unit. And really...

Sabrina (00:56.375)
position that academic unit as integral to the college and integral to providing access to resources and education and facility to the community and super great experience working within that office. And then I recently, about six months ago, transitioned to working as the director of marketing for the institution where I'm now housed within the Office of Strategic Communication, which is the central comms department of...

Sabrina (01:26.303)
of the college and my role there is really to produce and develop marketing strategies to help promote the programs to recruit for the different offerings that we have. And one of the cool things about my role is that we are obviously an art and design school and we're always thinking about new programming and new offerings to provide to people that

Sabrina (01:54.443)
want to do art and design and then obviously looking at trends and return on investment and career opportunities and jobs that are yet to exist, we're developing programs that can help support the future of art and design and education. So it's exciting to work here at MICA during this time developing new programming and we have some cool offerings that we plan to launch.

Sabrina (02:20.823)
the next fiscal year, which is exciting to see and to be a part of.

John Azoni (02:27.022)
Did you grow up in Baltimore or you come from somewhere else?

Sabrina (02:30.935)
Yeah, I grew up in Baltimore County, suburbs of Baltimore County, and went to high school here. And after high school, I actually moved to South Florida, where I went to college. I graduated from Florida International University, the Bachelor of Business Administration, and a concentration in marketing. I lived in Miami for a total of 10 years, and that's really where I...

Sabrina (02:54.439)
I learned my chops in the early stages of marketing and my first job was working for the Miami Heat organization in sales and group sales and that was just an extraordinary experience and I will always root for that organization as you may or may not know, the Heat are entering their finals, they're going to the finals this year which is exciting to see. As the underdog team they're ranked number eight and they are contending to.

Sabrina (03:24.259)
contending for the title. So yeah, I grew up in the area, moved to Miami, lived there for 10 years, and had an incredible experience at the Heat organization where I really learned about customer experience, really providing a great experience for people to consume a product that was exciting, obviously. And my role there is developing a sales team, coordinating all the different event logistics.

Sabrina (03:53.719)
for groups to come into the arena and have a great experience outside of just the basketball game. A lot of the programs that my team ran and produced were around fundraising opportunities for nonprofits and community organizations in the South Florida area. And after Miami, I took a leap of faith. This is around the time where there was a lot of conversations and blogs around, follow your passion, do what you love, entrepreneurship.

Sabrina (04:23.427)
And so I took a leap of faith, quit that really exciting, comfortable job to pursue working in wellness and fitness, which was another passion of mine. Ended up traveling the world, interviewing a bunch of different crossfit business owners and gym owners and personal trainers and so forth and decided to move to New York where I pursued personal training and working with women entrepreneurs in particular.

Sabrina (04:52.899)
to train them and also just understand how they were running their businesses. And ended up working in fitness for a few years, came back to Baltimore, managed a women's only gym here, worked with retail, athletic brands, Lululemon, building the brand with one of their sister, sister apparel companies in Baltimore. So doing lots of community marketing, lots of event marketing, social media marketing to help.

Sabrina (05:20.551)
established a new brand in the area. And then after working in retail and wellness, I ended up working with a brand experience agency where I was able to really work with a variety of a ton of other industries and tech, government, pharmaceuticals, just helping to develop brand strategy and marketing strategies for those types of industries.

Sabrina (05:49.411)
brand identity is a lot of stuff. So I've dabbled in lots of various aspects of marketing, starting in sales and customer experience and really just building up from there.

John Azoni (06:00.558)
That's great. That's great. I was actually just down in Miami this past weekend. When I visited, my buddies turned in 40 in a couple weeks, so me and my other friend went down to visit him. He's in Plantation, Florida. We went deep sea fishing and caught a shark. Which was very unexpected.

Sabrina (06:05.187)
Nice.

Sabrina (06:18.397)
Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Sabrina (06:22.703)
That is a really good video. That's awesome.

John Azoni (06:27.346)
It was like no bites for like two hours and we're like, all right, boys, let's pack it in. And then all of a sudden a shark. But we visited, we went down to South Beach in Miami and that was the first time I'd been down there and that was very different.

Sabrina (06:37.485)
Never.

Sabrina (06:47.083)
Yeah. I always say Miami is just, it's a world in and of itself. It is completely different than any other place that I've ever been to. It's a fun time. So, I'm glad. I'm glad.

John Azoni (06:58.666)
Yeah, it was everything I imagined it to be from like the Will Smith song and you know, but a lot of good people watching there. And then you said, did you do CrossFit?

Sabrina (07:08.824)
Yeah.

Sabrina (07:13.643)
I did CrossFit, yeah, so when I was living in Miami, I joined a CrossFit gym, Miami Beach's first CrossFit gym actually, which is still in existence. My friend still manages that gym. And yeah, I was part of the CrossFit community about 12 years ago. And yeah, it was great. You know, CrossFit, it served as one of the catalysts for me to...

Sabrina (07:39.807)
really take that leap, right? Like people are always like, why did you leave Miami? Why did you leave Miami Heat? CrossFit was one of the areas where I just felt like I was unstoppable and it just gave me some confidence and you know obviously it's a great workout but aside from that you know there's a strong community that that CrossFit community brings and it just helped really just helped me come to myself and really just understand like what I wanted to do and just gave me the confidence to.

John Azoni (07:50.149)
Mmm.

Sabrina (08:09.775)
to take those leaps. So. It's a humbling experience, but you know, it's one of those things where it's, you know, you don't think you can do something and then you end up lifting, I don't know, like 10 pounds heavier than the week before and you're just like, holy crap, I did that. So, yeah.

John Azoni (08:11.534)
That's cool. I experienced just the opposite when I did CrossFit. I felt very stackable. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

John Azoni (08:30.614)
Yeah, it was I did experience some breakthroughs like I could I for the longest time I could only do like two pull-ups and then I would just completely max out and then all of a sudden I was like oh my gosh I just did three pull-ups. And then I just kept going from there. It was fun. So yeah so I you know for people listening I went to Micah for a very brief brief time I had back in. 2004 I had a had my flip phone.

Sabrina (08:40.959)
Exactly! How about it? It's a little... Yeah... yeah. Awesome.

John Azoni (09:02.158)
And I got my lip pierced straight away. First, one of the first things, it's like, I mean, art school, gotta have my lip pierced. My dad was really not happy with that phone call. But you know, it was what it was. Yeah, I was there for a semester and it was a great school. And it was a, really loved it a lot. I had, I came back to Detroit for personal reasons.

Sabrina (09:05.795)
Hahahaha

Sabrina (09:16.175)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

John Azoni (09:32.546)
But I miss it for sure. It is a really challenging art school. I mean, I remember, you know, when like in high school, I was always like, I was always, I studied painting and stuff in art school, but in high school, I was kind of like the big fish in a little pond kind of thing. When I, there weren't that many people doing, you know, painting and stuff like that in high school. So it wasn't a big deal. And then...

John Azoni (09:57.782)
We were getting to Micah, that was my first art school experience. And oh my gosh, that was like a brick wall. Like I had like professors were like, listen, you got to do a little better here. I remember I thought my, I called my mom once I'm like, I'm not very good anymore. And then, but it was actually like, I really appreciated that because.

Sabrina (10:10.903)
that challenge you.

John Azoni (10:24.126)
I remember from that day, his professor just had this heart to heart with me. It was like, you got to put in some more effort here. And it just really catapulted me into a new level of art making, I think, where I was kind of like, okay, this is real life here.

Sabrina (10:43.711)
Yeah, and it's, you know, it's one of those things, I'm glad that you were able to experience a taste of it. And it's one of the, I did not come from an art background, I came from a business background. I do not know how to paint. But obviously art is more than just painting, but it's one of the things that I realized is that there is a perception that many people think.

Sabrina (11:08.031)
art school just like, oh, you can just do this thing. But it's rigorous. It is a very rigorous curriculum. And it's beyond just creating this piece of art. It's the problem solving. It's the, how do you take this idea in your head and put it into a tangible thing that you have to explain the meaning behind it. And it's a rigorous process to really just nail down those techniques, but.

Sabrina (11:36.407)
I think the beauty of it is that you're able to problem solve while you're creating at the same time. And I'm glad that there are faculty members that really just push you and push students to really dig deep into, you know, striving toward that progress of art making.

John Azoni (11:54.146)
Yeah. Yeah, the that professor that that took me aside, I actually, I partially oh, like my everyday outfit of plain t shirts to him. I can't even remember his name. I remember like one of the first things he said, like the first day of class was like, if I'm wearing a shirt with a logo on it, that company better be paying me to wear that. Yeah.

Sabrina (12:16.228)
Yeah, definitely.

John Azoni (12:22.41)
So I got a little business lesson there. So what do you think is, in your position, what do you think is unique about marketing and art school versus another industry, you know, CrossFit, whatever else that you've done?

Sabrina (12:25.647)
There you go.

Sabrina (12:35.34)
Yeah.

Sabrina (12:39.731)
Yeah, what's unique working in art school and higher education, but specific to art school is because I come from a business background, you know, there's research, there's strategy, there's how is this making an impact on the profit and loss statement of the organization. And one of the unique aspects of my role in the art school is being able to leverage that

Sabrina (13:09.955)
We have to produce a product, we have to market a product, and we have to make sure that it makes sense for students and for families to understand what is the return on investment if you're going to consume this product, but also being able to.

Sabrina (13:27.287)
develop programming and develop curriculum that is data-driven and research-driven, that supports, you know, the trajectory of the student and it supports the the industry, right, and it supports the career outcomes that a student can pursue. And so I really do think the aspect of marketing and art

Sabrina (13:55.407)
at Micah in particular. It's fairly new honestly. There's been I think one or two other director of marketing people in the past prior from me getting here. But the concept of marketing is new I think for a lot of people at the college. I think it's a really great opportunity now to be in this space to really educate my colleagues and educate.

Sabrina (14:23.779)
you know, my community on the importance of marketing and the importance of doing research and the importance of having data and working with other agencies and partners to help inform which project or which programs can be sustainable or what areas that we need to look into that are new that are emerging that we need to bring into the college in order to support the needs of this next generation and how they're consuming education, how they're consuming art and design.

Sabrina (14:54.287)
So yeah, marketing in the space and art is super unique and I am excited for the opportunities that are coming and the ability to be able to provide new programming and new opportunities for a newer audience to consume art and design at MICA.

John Azoni (15:17.014)
Yeah, how are you going about research and collecting data? Is there specific avenues you guys go through for that?

Sabrina (15:25.367)
Yeah, so I mean traditional like focus groups, right? We're really talking to students, talking to prospective students, talking to families, seeing what they need. But then we work with other partners that help us do, help us with researching on what are the emerging markets? What are the emerging careers? What are the careers that we don't even know are going to exist in 10, 15 years and how are we?

Sabrina (15:54.783)
providing an opportunity for students to be able to consume education in a way that supports new careers in the future. So yeah, we do a mix of surveys, focus groups, interviews, and then working with other third-party partners to really understand what's out in the market and being able to use different technologies that support

Sabrina (16:23.504)
the return on investment and what are the salaries that people are getting out of different program areas and how are we developing content and curriculum that supports that.

John Azoni (16:34.774)
Yeah. How would you say that MICA differentiates itself from other schools?

Sabrina (16:40.023)
Yeah, great question. So I will say from hearing from students, from hearing from faculty and people that interact with the college, is Mica is situated in Baltimore City. And Baltimore in and of itself is such a creative, artistic community. And creative artistic community, but it's also a strong, supportive community.

Sabrina (17:08.975)
And I believe that MICA differentiates itself in the sense that we really focus on the student experience. We focus on making sure that the student has everything that they need to succeed, and that we provide the supportive environment. There are other institutions that are perceived and are known to be a little bit more competitive in the sense of like, you know, it's me against you in the art space, whereas MICA, we differentiate ourselves where...

Sabrina (17:38.487)
we work together, the students really learn from each other in various disciplines. So the student that is taking, you know, that is pursuing animation can connect with a student that's pursuing painting and learn from each other. And it's a collaborative environment that I'm hearing and that I'm seeing from students that attend the school. And I think the other differentiator with MICA too is that

Sabrina (18:05.507)
There is one academic area in particular in the open studies area where we've been producing and offering online degrees for over 10 years at this point in art and design. And we have the business of art and design, a master's program in the business of art and design. And we have in the residential side too, we have

Sabrina (18:31.715)
creative entrepreneurship center and we have a business curriculum that is embedded into the residential side that I think is also different in other art and design schools is where we're really teaching students the business aspect of art and design and providing another angle to show students how they could, if they wanted to pursue their own business.

Sabrina (18:58.955)
in whatever field that they're able to do so. So again, differentiators, I would say, supportive community, super collaborative, and also we do have this unique aspect of entrepreneurship and business curriculum embedded into the academic areas, which I think is unique to MICA.

John Azoni (19:19.362)
That's great. I mean, I don't have too much experience with a lot of art schools, but I know when I was going in, when I was in art school 2004 through 2007, that the business side was just not something that was taught. At least the school that I ended up, you know, spending the rest of my college career and they had some classes which were helpful.

John Azoni (19:44.118)
But even like online, you know, YouTube wasn't really a thing yet and there wasn't as much like self-learning that could be done. I relied a lot on like mentors that I made in at school. I got a fly flying around my room. Anyway I relied more on mentors that like that were in our community that were teaching me how to how to do that. But it's so nice to see.

John Azoni (20:11.318)
like an actual focus on business. Cause I think that that was something, and I've heard that from peers at other art schools that that was missing for them and their art school experience was like, they left knowing how to make great art, but with like zero business sense. And I almost think like the business sense is almost as important, if not maybe even a little more important, you know.

Sabrina (20:35.183)
Yeah, and being able to provide that access, I think, is a huge differentiator. And we have, like I mentioned, the Center for Creative Entrepreneurship, which provides a ton of resources for students who, you know, maybe they don't want to start their own business, but at least they can have a taste into what it could be like, or at least the insights into that. And then the other part, too, that I want to touch upon, that I believe is unique to Micah's...

Sabrina (21:04.899)
with our first year students, there is an opportunity to participate in first year fellows program, which essentially you're just part of this amazing cohort where you're in studios, you're learning from different artists in the fields and you have the ability to...

Sabrina (21:26.947)
kind of like pick and choose your path at MICA. So there's a lot of different options that students can participate in based off of their interests. And it's pretty much like choosing your own path, which I think is great for students to kind of get a taste of things that they might be interested in, how that can be integrated into their education.

John Azoni (21:46.366)
Yeah, and what I like about what you said about how you differentiate yourselves is the idea that you're pulling that information from students and what they're saying about the school. And I think that's.

John Azoni (21:59.254)
That's great. I think, you know, the pattern that that that, you know, we see a lot of in higher ed is is what do we want to be true about our school? Not necessarily what students actually perceive to be true about the school. And so they're marketing more of like they're they're they're inventing differentiators that maybe not that aren't aligning with what students would would say is the differentiators for them.

John Azoni (22:27.138)
There's a thread that I followed on LinkedIn that someone posted just about differentiating your school. And I always remember someone commented like, I think, you know, college presidents know what differentiates them school, their schools, but they wish it were something different.

Sabrina (22:47.562)
Yeah, yeah. And it's, I mean, I think there, it's a...

Sabrina (22:50.871)
It's a balance of the two, right? You wanna be able to listen to students and listen to what their frustrations are, their challenges are, their ideas are, but also be able to back that up in a business sense. Like, does this make sense for the college? Does this make sense for how we wanna be positioned? But yeah, I definitely do believe that it's really critical to pay attention to what the students are feeling and thinking and saying in order to inform, again, how you wanna be positioned into the market.

John Azoni (23:21.41)
How much does storytelling play a role in marketing at Micah?

Sabrina (23:26.359)
Yeah, so storytelling plays a huge role and to be honest, we are still...

Sabrina (23:37.103)
crafting what that message is. Micah is going through a couple of different transitions as this podcast is being recorded right now. A couple of months ago, we announced there's a academic restructuring that's happening, so that's being finalized right now. And we are honestly trying to craft what that positioning statement is, what that, not positioning statement, but what that critical message is.

Sabrina (24:06.863)
And we see and hear and publish a ton of stories across what students are accomplishing, what alumni are accomplishing. And it plays a huge role in how prospective students and families see the college. And so we do, one of the initiatives that my team

Sabrina (24:36.335)
started is a not another newsletter newsletter. And essentially, every month or so, we have a theme that that we curate content and stories based on that theme. And it's been so impactful to share with our community and to share with trustees and families and prospects and just the amazing

Sabrina (25:02.695)
art that is not only being produced, but how that's impacting communities and how that's changing people's lives through the work that students have experienced at MICA. So storytelling plays a huge role in what art and design can do for communities, what art and design can do for families and the world. And it's really beautiful to see some of these stories come out. And as a result, it helps with...

Sabrina (25:30.999)
academic curriculum, so we have different types of partners that are able to provide funding to our academic areas for co-curricular opportunities for students to participate in. We can leverage these stories to engage in other types of community partnerships, which I think is critical to creating trust and just a general understanding and sharing of resources for art and design in this area. So storytelling is huge. It's huge here.

John Azoni (25:59.63)
Is that mostly text-based storytelling that you guys are doing? Like articles or are you doing videos or what format does that come out in?

Sabrina (26:06.879)
Yeah, it's definitely more tech space heavy. We are looking at other avenues for video storytelling. And we do see the need for video storytelling and also just user-generated content. That's some of the things that some of my colleagues on my team are working towards is, how are we telling these stories through social channels? But for right now, it's predominantly tech space.

John Azoni (26:35.082)
Yeah, user generated content. I mean, if you can get students to participate in that, I feel like sometimes it can be hard. I mean, in my video career, trying to get people to submit user generated content has been a challenge, but if you can correct that code, I think that's some of the most powerful stuff.

Sabrina (26:57.539)
Definitely, definitely.

John Azoni (27:00.786)
So how does How does my in just content creation like how does Micah think about content creation? Where are you guys active? Like what social channels tell me about just the content creation strategy

Sabrina (27:13.419)
Yeah, so we utilize TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, the major social channels to publish our content. And we do have YouTube channel. And the areas that my team is working on, and one of the things that I'm leading,

Sabrina (27:42.967)
provide content that is specific to these channels, but also providing content that makes sense based off of where people are in their journey, whether they're looking at MICA to attend as an undergrad student, a grad student, or they're faculty, or they're looking for a career at MICA, but really being able to create content that makes sense and publish that content in a way that makes sense based off of where people are in their journey.

Sabrina (28:12.479)
A lot of the way that we are taking in content is through word of mouth, right? We have faculty members, we have staff members saying like, so and so just did this, you know, they just won this award or they're going to be exhibiting at this, you know, big exhibition coming up. And so a lot of that is filtered through the Central Comms Department and we strategize on where this content needs to live, whether it's the website or across which channels.

Sabrina (28:43.607)
So yeah, a lot of that is sent through word of mouth. Then we use other social listening tools to really understand how other publications and how other media outlets are sharing stories and how we're filtering that in to publish across our own media as well.

John Azoni (29:02.414)
Cool. I love it. So tell me, so you have your own separate company as well.

Sabrina (29:09.323)
Yeah, Buffer and Muse. Yeah, so I started, launched Buffer and Muse in 2022, just as a wait as I've, you know, throughout my career, been in marketing and business for over 15 years. And one of the things that I recognize is that, you know, marketing means so many different things to so many different people. And there's always a sense of,

Sabrina (29:38.671)
how do I do marketing, right? There's this common theme that I was coming across and hearing was just like the executional side of marketing. And so Buffer Amuse really started as a project to have people understand what are the frameworks, what are the basic templates that you need just to, if you're a one person team or a small team, what are the frameworks that you need just to help you.

Sabrina (30:08.579)
build the foundation of how to do marketing, whether that's social media, whether that's email marketing, whether that's research. So I started this business to really provide people with the frameworks and the tools to help them execute on the initiatives that the organizations are. So it's a new business. I have my full-time job at Micah, but Buffer and Muse is something on.

Sabrina (30:38.003)
on the side that I do that fills me up.

John Azoni (30:43.53)
Yeah. Is there any meaning to the name? Buffer and Muse?

Sabrina (30:47.467)
And I'm Buffer and Muse, yeah. So for me, I tend to be behind the scenes in marketing. I tend to just be the, like I like to orchestrate behind the scenes and I see buffer, like the meaning buffer in like the music sounds, it's like kind of like that in between space and.

Sabrina (31:14.903)
And then muse, you know, muse is musing. So like, what is your muse that gives you inspiration, that sparks that idea for you? So it literally was a shower thought. And I was like, after a muse. But yeah, it's a mix of like, what is the in-between? The stuff that you can't really touch, you can't really, yeah, you can't, you can't, there's, it's not a tangible thing, but it's the in-between that's still.

John Azoni (31:39.574)
Yeah.

Sabrina (31:41.819)
is profound that you have to do the research, you have to understand how people feel in order to produce the thing. So that's how that name came up.

John Azoni (31:52.246)
I love it. And then you start, I'm always fascinated with people that start podcasts, especially as a way to market business. So your podcast is something relatively new, right?

Sabrina (31:58.607)
I'm gonna go.

Sabrina (32:08.523)
Yes, my podcast is new. Started that in January of 23 of this year, and it's called Musings on Marketing. And it was also an idea that I've had for a couple years where I was like, I should just do a blog. And I had a small blog called Musings on Marketing. And with writing, I used to write and publish a lot. I used to do freelance writing and everything. And I still do wanna get back into it, but I found myself.

Sabrina (32:37.187)
getting in my own way, where it's like, I'm going to write this thing, I'm going to write this thing, and then I just never did it. And I do enjoy talking, voicing my thoughts, and I find that to be a little bit easier. So I started using some marketing as a podcast to reconnect with other marketers, right? Like I had just switched roles, you know, working with one academic area to now Central

Sabrina (33:07.215)
post COVID-ish in the space of like, man, I haven't connected with other marketers in a long time. And I wanted to just be able to provide a way to reconnect with other marketers, to hear how they're going about their role in their day to day and seeing what emerging trends that they're seeing, if it's resonating with me, if it's, or, you know, if I'm going through a similar experience. And so, yeah, Amusing Sun Marketing is my podcast. It's been fun to learn how to...

Sabrina (33:37.219)
how to produce a podcast, edit, you know, I'm a one person show here. So it's been cool just to do some research and see what tools and software works best for a podcast.

John Azoni (33:51.67)
What have you learned that you can share? I mean, I think you have like five or six episodes, which is a great start. I mean, I feel like people get like two, three episodes. I heard a statistic that's like something like 80%. And I'm probably just like, don't quote this in the fact books here, but like 80% of podcasts never make it past the third episode.

Sabrina (33:54.514)
I'm sorry.

Sabrina (33:57.228)
Yeah.

Sabrina (34:16.943)
Oh, good to know. I'm on the other side of it. So one of the things that I've learned is that just keep working at it. Like, you know, whenever I personally, when I do something for the first time, I get so overwhelmed. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have this, this, this and this. And literally with podcasting, it's just like just doing it, just trying it out and continuously doing it. And so when I first started my podcast, I'll be.

John Azoni (34:18.925)
enough.

Sabrina (34:42.211)
completely transparent. I didn't have a microphone. So the first two episodes, the sound, I listened to it. I'm just like, it's like nails across the chalkboard for me. So like, okay, let me just invest in a microphone and that just literally transformed the way that it sounded, obviously. It sounds way much, way better. But the thing that I learned is to document how to do it, how to, you know, document.

Sabrina (35:10.903)
what you need, the podcast description, the intro. I do use a software to help combine the jingles, the music at the beginning and the music at the end. And the first couple episodes, I just like, I literally just like figured it out and I didn't write it. And then by the third or fourth one, I was like, wait, I should have wrote down what I actually did. So I don't have to like spend two hours to do it. So.

Sabrina (35:38.711)
Document how you do your process, whatever that is for you. It gets easier. Yeah, I use Alitu, A-L-I-T-U. It's a software company based somewhere in Europe. And I know that because I get an international transaction fee, which is like a dollar, but it's fine. And yeah, I use that software. I use Headliner.

John Azoni (35:43.086)
What's the software that you use? What's like... ..

Sabrina (36:08.527)
for the social media posts that I do. And my podcast is strictly audio right now, so I don't do the video. And that was intentional because, again, I'm a one person show and I was like, let me just start with the basics and just get this out there and then I can, you know, improve or, you know, iterate from there.

John Azoni (36:29.95)
I support that. I started as an audio only thing and it was way simpler then. I'll put it that way.

Sabrina (36:37.547)
video. Yeah. Although now I know there's yeah you're using reverse that yeah there's a ton of great tools now to help edit video and stuff. But yeah.

John Azoni (36:46.518)
Yeah, it's getting easier. Riverside has some good editing, like internal editing functions. And if you run your...

John Azoni (36:52.994)
conversation with as little editing necessary as possible, which is what I'm kind of working towards. Like if you listen to my first, I think it's like episode seven, if you listen to that first episode with like my first guest, or I was interviewing someone, like the amount of ums I had to cut out of that was monumental. And then I'm like, you know, I would shave like two hours off of my editing time if I would just stop.

Sabrina (37:13.402)
I'm sorry.

John Azoni (37:19.978)
saying um all the time and stop like pausing in my sentences.

Sabrina (37:20.335)
Thank you. Good luck.

Sabrina (37:23.895)
Yes, yeah, that's definitely something that I've learned too, is just being intentional with what you're saying to help with the post-production process.

John Azoni (37:33.354)
Yeah, for sure. Well, and I like to talk about the podcast because I know a lot of schools are kind of just starting to dip their toes into a podcast and wondering if that's something worthwhile and what that will take. And I resonate with what you said. It's just like, just do it. Just do an audio only version. Record your own thoughts on your iPhone or something like that, and upload it to Libsyn or wherever. Record a Zoom call.

John Azoni (38:03.054)
you know, that's the simplest way to have a guest is just have a Zoom call or a Teams call and record it. There's downsides to that, which is why I got Riverside to do these, because it like records natively on each side so that if there's a disruption in the wifi, you're not getting that interference. You're working with like the raw files from your side and my side. So that's just one little hurdle that I've...

Sabrina (38:28.811)
Let's get to know.

John Azoni (38:33.206)
to get over. But yeah, I think it is starting a podcast is super overwhelming. And I was really against it because I worked for a company for over a decade that was like really big into pocket. My boss that was really into podcasting is really good at it really social, like extrovert Enneagram seven to the max. And and I am not. So I was like, you know, my life is going to become like trying to find guests and

Sabrina (39:02.857)
I'm gonna go.

John Azoni (39:03.054)
figure out how to talk to people. It's an acquired skill but I will say it as I've done I think this is probably my 23rd or 24th episode it's gotten so much easier and I you know my encouragement to anyone wanting to start a podcast is it gets easier you'll figure it out it's a little overwhelming at first but don't over complicate it.

Sabrina (39:06.027)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sabrina (39:26.067)
Yeah, sound advice, I would agree with that. Um, yeah, I was asking, are you an Enneagram 3? 4? Okay. I'm a 3, but yeah, I hear you. It's a different experience. I would consider myself an Andoverte, but yeah. There's definitely some pros that come out of your natural extrovert that it's probably a little bit easier for you.

John Azoni (39:33.954)
Four.

John Azoni (39:51.766)
Yeah, I can turn it on. Like if I'm in a conversation like this where there's a purpose to the conversation, there's a goal to the conversation, and when that goal is met, the conversation's over. Like that is my sweet spot. Like I can be lively and upbeat and I feel confident. But if I'm at a party, it's like the worst. Like I avoid kids' birthday parties. I have two daughters that are in that peak birthday party stage of life.

John Azoni (40:20.554)
I will negotiate with my wife to the high heavens. I will clean the house. I'll do the dishes. I'll scrub the toilets. What do I have to do to trade for you to go to this birthday party at night? Because I hate open-ended conversations where you're just kind of talking to somebody in passing. And it's just like, I hate small talk so much. I hate it so much.

Sabrina (40:26.02)
No.

Sabrina (40:36.362)
I'm going home.

Sabrina (40:45.023)
small snack, awkwardness, blah.

John Azoni (40:51.819)
I actually, at one point, changed my whole hairstyle. I buzzed my hair so that I wouldn't have to talk to the hair stylist in the chair for half an hour. I was like, I can do this myself and I can cut out one awkward part of my life.

Sabrina (41:10.739)
Oh my gosh, that's incredible. It's a good strategy, yeah.

John Azoni (41:15.018)
Yeah, but then my eight-year-old, she was like, Dad, my friends on the bus are asking why my dad is bald. I'm like, I'm not bald, it's buzzed. Like, they kind of know the difference. I'm like, all right, I'll grow it back.

Sabrina (41:30.443)
Okay.

John Azoni (41:31.766)
Well, hey, this has been super great talking to you. I really appreciate you coming on the show and kind of just being transparent with us about your process. Where can people find you that want to connect with you or want to connect with Micah or Buffer and Muse or whatever else?

Sabrina (41:49.663)
Yeah, thanks again for having me, John. This has been a real pleasure to speak with you. So for those of you who are interested in learning more about MICA, you can follow us on all the socials or hit up our website, micamica.edu. And I will also plug in, you can find me, Sabrina

Sabrina (42:18.251)
And yeah, musings on marketing, my podcasts on all the platforms. So yeah, this has been a real pleasure, John. Thank you so much.

John Azoni (42:28.002)
Awesome, good deal.