Higher Ed Storytelling University

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:27:23
Speaker 1
A pattern interrupt will become popular. And then it becomes the pattern. So it's like, okay, my pattern interrupt is now the same as these 5000 other people doing the exact same pattern. And it just becomes instantly like scrollable like you said. So it's like one of those things where for me, I'm always like, how can I come up with sort of my own way to be interesting rather than copying what is super popular right now.

00:00:28:01 - 00:00:51:16
Speaker 2
Hey, welcome to the Higher Ed Storytelling University podcast on the B Podcast Network. This is a podcast dedicated to helping higher ed marketers tell better stories, create better content and roll more students. My name is John Azoni. I'm the founder at Unveiled and we are a video production company working specifically with college marketing teams and helping them tell student success stories all year long through a subscription approach.

00:00:51:16 - 00:01:11:18
Speaker 2
And you can learn more at unveild.tv that's unveild. Or if you want to chat directly with me, you can find me on LinkedIn or find my contact info on the contact page of our website. My guest today is Mike Richeson. Mike is the founder of a video production company called Homestead Production, and they work with clients in a variety of industries.

00:01:12:00 - 00:01:37:18
Speaker 2
But don't waste your time trying to, you know, Google Home said production because they don't have a website. And as you'll learn in this episode, that's a strategic choice. In addition to being a talented video content creator, Mike's also a very talented marketer and thought leader in the content creation space. So keep listening to learn how building a B roll library is essential to get the most out of your content marketing and social media efforts.

00:01:37:19 - 00:01:56:12
Speaker 2
Also, how your content is just a blip on the radar when someone is scrolling and the importance of capturing attention. You'll also learn about pattern interruptions, what makes a good one and why? Gimmicky ones are dumb. You also learn what to do if you are overwhelmed. Overwhelmed with content creation, social media, keeping up with the algorithms, all that.

00:01:56:12 - 00:02:14:01
Speaker 2
Mike is going to say something in here that might set you free a little bit and give you permission to go against the traditional social media advice. And then you'll also learn the importance of storytelling to stay not only top of mind, but, as Mike puts it, buried in the hearts of your audience. So let's dive in. Here's my conversation with Mike Richeson.

00:02:14:03 - 00:02:17:12
Speaker 2
All right, Mike, thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate you being here.

00:02:17:14 - 00:02:19:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, my pleasure.

00:02:19:20 - 00:02:37:23
Speaker 2
All right. So you have I found you through Seth Odell, who was on the podcast several episodes ago, used to work with Seth, I take it, and since have followed, you really enjoyed following you and really just feel like you're a very interesting guy.

00:02:38:00 - 00:02:39:12
Speaker 1
And.

00:02:39:14 - 00:02:53:17
Speaker 2
Just very eclectic. I mean, like, you know, on your LinkedIn profile, you're like, Roger because in one way, and then you were homeless on purpose and stuff. And then Seth told me some stuff about you too. Something about like I only lived on a river.

00:02:53:18 - 00:02:55:10
Speaker 1
Or mineral water.

00:02:55:14 - 00:02:57:21
Speaker 2
Lived out of your car or out of your van or something like that.

00:02:58:02 - 00:03:01:01
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. I lived in for like, a year. Yeah.

00:03:01:03 - 00:03:04:12
Speaker 2
Okay, Maybe I just added the river part because that was like that.

00:03:04:12 - 00:03:08:09
Speaker 1
I know that. That one in free candy. I get that one way.

00:03:08:10 - 00:03:16:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell me about yourself. Yeah. Just tell me who you are and what you do.

00:03:16:11 - 00:03:37:23
Speaker 1
So I've had, like, a very strange sort of meandering career a little bit. I primarily started out as a journalist. And then when 2007 happened, I got laid off and I thought, You know what? I love the work, but I hate the pay. I'm going into marketing because for some reason I thought marketers got paid a lot of money and was not always correct on that one.

00:03:38:01 - 00:03:58:12
Speaker 1
But that was sort of my entry into higher ed because my first marketing job was actually for a university and I forget my title there. I think I was like the managing creative something I remember but started there and then I left after, I don't know, three years and that's when I did my bike trip. I rode my bike around the western U.S. for like six months.

00:03:58:13 - 00:04:10:13
Speaker 1
Something like that came back, really kind of fell in love with video and sort of dive into that quite a bit, was doing some freelance work, and then I got a job at Nike. I'm just going to give you the Reader's Digest version here.

00:04:10:14 - 00:04:11:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, go for it.

00:04:11:19 - 00:04:31:05
Speaker 1
I started working at Nike, was helping them launch products online, and I started a podcast that made the news a couple of times. I started a YouTube channel that kind of blew up and then I sold to like this really huge and then a retailer and then they hired me to be their sort of like product video producer.

00:04:31:07 - 00:04:48:06
Speaker 1
And that was way more than I was making at Nike. So I love Nike. Yeah. And then it up like it's 2014, I think. And that was when Seth, who I had met in 2011, I think at a conference in Vegas. Mm hmm. He was at Destiny two and he said, Hey, do you want to move to New Hampshire?

00:04:48:07 - 00:05:06:23
Speaker 1
And I was like, Absolutely not. I'm zero interest in that. And he's like, Oh, well, just just hear me out. So we started talking about it, and that was when they were doing their big bus campaign delivering diplomas around the country. Yeah. And the previous time, you know, it was an amazing campaign, but like, all they got was a commercial out of it.

00:05:06:23 - 00:05:26:12
Speaker 1
And this time they're like, we need like a digital social kind of campaign to run side by side with it. So that was sort of what I was brought in to do. And it was amazing. You know, we ended up doing six weeks and 30 some states and this is gigantic campaign. It was huge and super fun and I'm still tired from it.

00:05:26:13 - 00:05:45:10
Speaker 1
And then after I finished you, I kind of went back to doing freelance stuff and I was sort of the last bit that I'd really done in higher ed. And then I kind of always was someone in the Agency Space Summit in the freelance space. And then about a year ago I finally just went, I just love film and that whole thing.

00:05:45:10 - 00:06:00:09
Speaker 1
I just want to do that. I kind of wanted out of the social consultant marketing realm a little bit, and I just I wanted to focus on production because that's really my my primary love. And so just went full time on that. And it's been almost a year now.

00:06:00:11 - 00:06:18:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, I can tell you. Love it. I like some of the content that you post, like you sitting by the campfire and just any questions that people send you and you got like sound design, you're like throwing sticks down and, and just I like that. Just sort of like travel blog style. I've seen some of your other stuff too, where it's just like very just down to earth.

00:06:18:19 - 00:06:37:05
Speaker 2
But, but also it's you do a good job of mixing like a high production value with a down to earth approach, which I think is a great blend of of the two spaces I think that we're in these days between like tik-tok and, you know, commercials.

00:06:37:07 - 00:07:01:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, Yeah, I appreciate that. That's definitely kind of on purpose. I like that conversational, sort of authentic, just me and you talking type of thing. But I'm also like a massive lighting nerd and I'm super OCD about it. So I set up, you know, even that campfire thing, I have like two lights and a camera and like all this stuff set up and it's overkill.

00:07:01:08 - 00:07:21:04
Speaker 1
It's so stupid, but it's like, I just love it. And, you know, every single platform so far starts as raw and authentic and choppy. And as you go, the production values get higher and higher and higher. And now YouTube is wildly high production. So is Instagram. So, you know, these are the ones. So it just gets there eventually.

00:07:21:04 - 00:07:26:06
Speaker 1
And I was like, I'm just going to start there and eventually it's going to be just like this. So yeah, why not?

00:07:26:08 - 00:07:36:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, So tell people, I mean, people are hearing about this campfire video and things like that. So tell people about the content that you make that you that people might see if they follow you on LinkedIn.

00:07:36:10 - 00:08:00:07
Speaker 1
So I definitely talk about like some of it is useful, you know, for marketers and things like that and other filmmakers because I do talk about process and I do talk about like just workflow and how to do things, whether it's like, Hey, here's how I lit something or Here's how I shot something in particular, or here's like, you know, a good thing to do if you're making videos, here's the bad stuff to avoid if you're making videos.

00:08:00:09 - 00:08:26:19
Speaker 1
And then a lot of it is just kind of like personal storytelling. Like I'll talk about, you know, my stepson's birthday or, you know, my day out in the lake or, you know, I'll do the campfire Q&A thing because it's just like everybody wants to be Alex or Lucy and the cool soupy, you know, stuff. And for me, I'm just like, I just want to like, sit down and talk to people and not pretend to be anything other than I am.

00:08:26:23 - 00:08:37:21
Speaker 1
And I'm like, in Montana, I'm a montana kid. I am a I'm a farm kid with city skills. And so it's just kind of those two things come together. And that's kind of why it's a little eclectic.

00:08:37:23 - 00:08:53:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. Montana, I want to ask you about that. I was in Montana. I went fly fishing with my dad in Montana, and several years ago it was super fun, gorgeous. And then obviously, I'm sure everyone asks you if you watch Yellowstone. So I.

00:08:53:08 - 00:08:53:18
Speaker 1
Seen it.

00:08:53:18 - 00:09:14:13
Speaker 2
No, I feel like I'm pretty much I can teach you about Montana because I've watched the Yellowstone. I did buy a $13 cowboy hat off of Amazon to watch that show. And I was inspired by these like Tic Tacs that were like one day of watching Yellowstone and they're just like normal clothes. And it's like when we.

00:09:14:13 - 00:09:17:04
Speaker 1
Got lucky in.

00:09:17:06 - 00:09:33:12
Speaker 2
Their outfits, just keep getting more and more ridiculous. Yeah. So, okay, cool. So you so tell us about the, the work that you do with your clients. What do you get paid to do today that's not obviously not higher?

00:09:33:12 - 00:10:08:13
Speaker 1
Ed So I kind of two primary verticals. One is it's very kind of productized retainer based type of thing. So what I'll do is like I'll, I'll work with a company and we rather than doing like, Hey, I need a commercial which I'll do project work, but most of it isn't. But rather than that, what I do is like, Hey, look, you want marketers just under tremendous amounts of pressure, like they have way more requests and they have resources every day is somebody else wants something and they just tend to just have a hard time fulfilling all these requests.

00:10:08:13 - 00:10:26:11
Speaker 1
And so a lot of times they'll go internal and sometimes that work, sometimes it doesn't depending on the skill set of people. Whereas I kind of come along and say, Hey, look, every single month we're going to sit down to the end of the month. You tell me kind of what you want. And then based on sort of our predetermined scope of work, I'll say I can do this much of that for you.

00:10:26:13 - 00:10:47:09
Speaker 1
And then at the end of a year, six months, whatever the contract is, you have a pretty massive library of content that you can recut now for years. So we try to do stuff where it's like, yes, they're getting monthly content for social channels, you know, marketing assets, their website, whatever. But also keep in mind that like, you know, a year from now, what are you going to need to promote stuff?

00:10:47:09 - 00:11:07:12
Speaker 1
Because most companies have pretty predictable schedules. They know what events are coming up. And so at the end of that, they have, you know, tons of photos, tons of videos. And I keep everything like you know, labeled everything. So whenever they go, hey, we have a the go that Boston Marathon is coming up again. I can instantly cut whatever they want because the year before.

00:11:07:14 - 00:11:30:05
Speaker 1
Yeah so that's the the one vertical and then the other one is very much the thought leadership talking head type stuff. A lot of that's in the medical space and finance space. So I have clients that, you know, once a month will do a session. I help them plan the topics. We go over everything and then all they have to do is show up and talk about what they know, and then I edit everything and hand it to them for their accounts.

00:11:30:05 - 00:11:33:04
Speaker 1
So it's kind of those two primary verticals.

00:11:33:06 - 00:12:10:19
Speaker 2
I like that. I like that idea of the thought leadership, like simple approach. Just sit somebody down. Let them just kind of dump their their knowledge and then you, as the editor takes to take that and kind of optimize it for social and Yeah, and stuff like that. And I love the and like my philosophy too is probably yours like similar to yours in that I feel like if you're if, if a company is hiring a production company to do a commercial or a little mini story on someone and they're not getting the footage to to build a library with, they're just wasting so much money.

00:12:10:19 - 00:12:32:22
Speaker 2
I mean, like, yeah, that's so much money spent on one piece of content that's probably not going to go viral. You know, people it might, you know, in my experience, like I've, you know, the last production company I worked for, most of the clients would just post that puts a video we do on YouTube. And then that was it.

00:12:33:04 - 00:12:54:12
Speaker 2
And then I check back a year later and had 200 views and I'm like, Really? That was it? Like we did we put our hearts into that. Like that was, you know, so at the very least you got to get the footage and, and do, do stuff with that. Make it a whole campaign. Like you can make even just one little mini story can be a whole campaign worth of stuff around just this one person story.

00:12:54:12 - 00:12:57:19
Speaker 2
And then repeat that. Repeat it, repeat it.

00:12:57:21 - 00:13:13:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I kind of think about, you know, those sort of the bigger the bigger videos. For me, it's like, that's the product. And then like, all the little stuff is kind of like the marketing around it. So it's like shoot teasers for TikTok and Instagram reels and all that stuff and point it all back to whatever the main thing is.

00:13:13:12 - 00:13:28:03
Speaker 1
And it's like a lot of that stuff isn't a massive lift. I mean, it's not like you need to like, do tons of extra work to do it. Most of it's just in the edit, so it's like, man, you have all this stuff and then they don't use it. It is really disappointing. Yeah, Yeah.

00:13:28:05 - 00:13:48:07
Speaker 2
Okay, so shifting gears here. So you I saw a video today of just kind of prepping for this episode and you had like, oh, it looked like a receipt roll or something like a roll of paper and you were talking about everyone scrolling and stuff. That's Yeah. So if you're, if you follow Mike Richeson, go check out his featured videos.

00:13:48:07 - 00:14:06:04
Speaker 2
They're very good. Tell, tell us about that because I thought that was a very great way of illustrating the way that people are scrolling. And I love the part where it's like, Oh, here you are, you're gone. So tell us about that. And that video actually had quite a bit of engagement on it.

00:14:06:06 - 00:14:28:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think that was probably like my most successful post ever so far. I don't know if the views are, but it did really well. I mean, the whole idea was just like, it's it's not enough to just make something. It has to it has to be something that people actually want to watch. And I know that sounds so simple to say, and it can be harder to do, but I don't think it's that complicated.

00:14:28:07 - 00:14:52:13
Speaker 1
It's just one of those things where you take a stat and you go like, I could have made a talking head video and said, Hey, guess what? Everybody, people scroll an average of 300 feet on their phone. That's the height of the Statue of Liberty. Don't be boring. But I kind of like try to weave in my own philosophies, but I'm making videos is just kind of like almost proof of concept where it's like, can I come up with a way to demonstrate this fact that is maybe visually interesting?

00:14:52:15 - 00:15:14:19
Speaker 1
And so for me, it was like, okay, I found a 300 foot rule of receipt tape and just started scrolling. And I was like, Look, this is what people are doing on their phones all day long and they're doing it this fast. It's just pop up up above. It goes so fast and then, you know, so I traced out the phone shape on that printed paper and said, That's your six inches for the day.

00:15:14:21 - 00:15:37:17
Speaker 1
That's what they get. That's your opportunity to fail or succeed. And if you are just pumping out self-serving crap, to be honest, does that look amazing? And talk about production value? I'm just talking about the interest factor. If you don't do that, they're gone and they're on to the next person who is going to do it. And your competition is the weirdo tech talkers and the YouTube videos.

00:15:37:17 - 00:15:56:08
Speaker 1
It's not just your competitors directly. It's like attention, attention, attention. And so for me, I just wanted to find a way to demonstrate that in kind of a tangible way. And people responded well to it. But the point was, it's like, this is your opportunity and please, please care about it, because otherwise they're just gone.

00:15:56:10 - 00:16:22:15
Speaker 2
Yeah. And what I, what it's really been like grinding my gears lately as I'm, as I'm scrolling is the artificial hook points that people are trying to, to use all over my Instagram reels. It's like a scroll and then someone's like, hey, internet marketers in there, like, sing it really loud and really fast, or they're like coming at the camera or they're like, in the exercise in seconds, I'm going to tell you how to grow your business by 500%.

00:16:22:15 - 00:16:52:12
Speaker 2
Like it's just like snap. Like, just like, try something else. You know? I'm like, that's that's not that's not And that's actually making me want to scroll. And also, when you say stop, stop scrolling and listen to this thing, I am immediately scrolling. It's like these artificial like call outs. I think surprise work several years ago, like the really like, oh, you're going to like, you're going to clap and like and like really be in their face to get their attention and get them to stop.

00:16:52:14 - 00:17:36:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, but like, it just looks like a gimmick and I can tell it's a gimmick, but, but there is an art to hooking people with content that fits into their feed, that makes them want to keep watching. And that doesn't look like an ad. It's an instant giveaway. If you're like, Hey, you Internet marketers that just that's I know you're trying to sell me some course and it's going to be free and it's a free download and I'm going to download it and you're going to spam me like Clickfunnels did on me recently, or my gosh, I can't even get off their list now because I downloaded some webinar thing that looked mildly interesting.

00:17:36:03 - 00:17:51:17
Speaker 2
And then I'm like, Unsubscribe, unsubscribe, unsubscribe. Like, anyways, so so yeah, talk, talk about that. Like talk about like the difference between kind of a gimmicky hook and just something that kind of fits into their, their feed.

00:17:51:19 - 00:18:15:23
Speaker 1
It's funny, I'm actually working on a video right now about like how to create pattern interrupts that aren't that aren't annoying because that's all that that's what they're trying to do. The problem is is that like a pattern interrupt will become popular and then it becomes the pattern. So it's like, okay, my pattern interrupt is now the same as these 5000 other people doing the exact same pattern interrupt, and it just becomes instantly like scrollable, like you said.

00:18:16:01 - 00:18:34:07
Speaker 1
So it's like one of those things where for me, I'm always like, how can I come up with sort of my own way to be interesting rather than copying what is super popular right now. Because in six months marketers ruin everything. We all know your feed is going to be filled with the exact same thing, the exact same thing over and over and over again.

00:18:34:09 - 00:18:52:09
Speaker 1
And for a while, I think the FTC shut it down. But commercials used to start with a white flash. That's what they do. Because if you weren't looking directly at the TV, you would see this flash of white and you look back at it and that's how they would start the commercials. And that carried over into the Internet for a little while.

00:18:52:11 - 00:19:11:04
Speaker 1
So it's just like these things that sort of they start out as legitimate pattern interrupts and then they just become gimmicks because everybody's doing it. And so it's like I'm I'm just constant going like, okay, I'm not against sort of like using what works, but at the same time you have to fashion it to a way that's kind of uniquely you.

00:19:11:06 - 00:19:18:13
Speaker 1
Otherwise you're just going to be another meta, Hey, marketers, stuff's growing and everyone's like, No, I'm out, I'm out, I'm gone.

00:19:18:15 - 00:19:39:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's hard. If you're just going to do a talking head, then you're limiting your options to how can I say something, you know, outrageous or loud or fast or something like that that's going to get their attention. I feel like it's a little easier with when you when you're incorporating some imagery, some visual like B-roll or something like that.

00:19:39:07 - 00:19:43:08
Speaker 2
Have you ever read Brendan Cain's work? It's called Hook Point.

00:19:43:10 - 00:19:44:14
Speaker 1
I don't think so.

00:19:44:16 - 00:20:09:05
Speaker 2
All right. Super good book. He talks all about that just like it's called Hook Point. He talks all about creating content that hooks people and like what? What works, what doesn't, what you should try, what, you know, things like that is super interesting. But anyway, yeah, it's a great book and I think that, I think that just people don't, don't pay attention enough to that.

00:20:09:05 - 00:20:19:17
Speaker 2
We're we're very focused on the content itself what we want to say but then that that front and then that back end is just kind of an afterthought. So but.

00:20:19:17 - 00:20:20:04
Speaker 1
I was I.

00:20:20:04 - 00:20:48:16
Speaker 2
Also feel like it can be kind of exhausting, you know, to kind of always be thinking about how am I going to like, I almost feel like it's like, how am I going to manipulate somebody into watching this video? You know? And that's why I mentioned Brendon, because he talks about like he talks about like satisfying visuals, like, you know, and I and ever since I read that, I noticed that like, I notice myself stopping on like a some like paint dripping down or.

00:20:48:16 - 00:20:49:08
Speaker 1
Something.

00:20:49:10 - 00:20:57:06
Speaker 2
Or someone like squishing a cupcake or something in their hands. I mean, as long as it's like relevant to the message, I'm like, okay, you got me on that one.

00:20:57:06 - 00:20:59:13
Speaker 1
But yeah.

00:20:59:15 - 00:21:01:02
Speaker 2
But, but yeah.

00:21:01:04 - 00:21:19:12
Speaker 1
Well, just like I call it, just the two sided hook. There's kind of like the verbal like, what are you going to say that sort of makes them go, Oh, this is relevant to me and I care about it. But then also visually, like, what are you going to do to sort of like grab their attention long enough to stop them from scrolling so that they actually hear your words or see them on the screen or whatever it might be.

00:21:19:14 - 00:21:42:03
Speaker 1
I love motion. So for me, like, you know, if I'm doing a walking talk like this is I do this constantly for anybody who actually like, watches my videos, I always start if I'm holding the camera, I always start like this. I just move a little bit. I start to talk or I enter the frame. Even if it's a static shot, something that makes somebody like, Oh, what's going on?

00:21:42:05 - 00:21:59:14
Speaker 1
Anything? Then like, stop scrolling. Oh my God, it's the best thing you're going to hear like that. I'm like, Yeah, I'm just gone. So it's like to me, it's more subtle and I just try to go like, What can I do that's visually interesting? While also confirming to them that like, this is something that you're going to be interested in watching.

00:21:59:16 - 00:22:20:03
Speaker 2
Quick break here to tell you about how you can scale up your student and alumni success stories without taking on a bunch of extra work to manage with our video storytelling subscriptions. So look, if making even one video, as we all know, it's takes a lot of legwork and lots of steps to go through. It's expensive and you've got to do all the coordinating and everything, yet hire a video vendor.

00:22:20:03 - 00:22:43:07
Speaker 2
You got to herd all the cats and then you get usually like one video out of that. But what if you get a year's worth of storytelling content that you could use to highlight your various programs for the cost of maybe three or four one off videos from a production company. But in this case, you have 132 videos at the end of the year to deploy in your various social media context.

00:22:43:09 - 00:23:05:20
Speaker 2
Well, that is something that you can do that unveiled. Our aim is to take the friction out of telling great stories. So whether you're a big school or a small liberal arts college, you can tell really compelling stories all year round and fill your content calendar with video content. We get this done anywhere in the U.S. We best shoot a year's worth of content and then every month drip out to you one new student or alumni story.

00:23:05:22 - 00:23:27:12
Speaker 2
And then we build a whole package of additional content around that student or alumni story for the month. So you're going to get that full length story, which is usually 2 to 3 minutes. You'll get a 30 and a 15 second cut down to use in various shorter contexts. And then eight topical videos, because while we have the student sitting here, we're going to make sure we get the most out of them.

00:23:27:12 - 00:23:57:00
Speaker 2
Ask them about scholarships, asking about career development opportunities, internship opportunities, how great the professors are. Whatever it is, we'll work with your team on what are those things that we can really get out of each student. So we're maximizing that engagement opportunity and getting you the most content as possible. And then we're going to give you all the B-roll and all the interview content, all the raw stuff that you can take internally and repurpose to the cows come home.

00:23:57:02 - 00:24:21:14
Speaker 2
And there's a lot of additional content opportunities within that, unlimited amounts of whatever tiktoks, whatever you want to make. So head over to pricing dot unveiled dot TV to download our pricing guide unveiled is spelled Unveiled. The pricing guide has everything in it that you need to know, and if you'd like to chat further, you can book a call with me on our website and I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have.

00:24:21:19 - 00:24:40:17
Speaker 2
All right, back to my conversation with Mike Richeson. Okay. So here's here's the question that I think comes up for a lot of our listeners, is that and I kind of mentioned, it's just it can be overwhelming to constantly try to engineer your content in a way that's going to be effective. And I think for a lot of people it's enough.

00:24:40:17 - 00:24:43:04
Speaker 2
If they're just posting every day, it's like, that's hard enough.

00:24:43:08 - 00:24:44:19
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:24:44:21 - 00:25:06:06
Speaker 2
Now you know, now you're telling me I got to do better posts every day and I'm like, I barely have any time to post there. It's a miracle that I've posted five things in the last week, in the last five days. So. Yeah, Well, what do you say to like, what do you say to marketers that may get this kind of advice of like, you've got to do better, you've got to do this different blah, blah, blah.

00:25:06:06 - 00:25:23:16
Speaker 2
But they're already like, they already feel buried in content content creation. And maybe, maybe they're seeing that it's not even working right away. You know, they're taking people's advice and it's not even paying off right away. So it's like, what's the point? What do you say to, like overwhelmed marketers like that.

00:25:23:18 - 00:25:26:06
Speaker 1
Do less.

00:25:26:08 - 00:25:27:12
Speaker 2
Do less and do it better?

00:25:27:12 - 00:25:48:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, I don't know. I know that's sort of contrary. But like for me, you know, I look at someone like Mark Rober, he posts one video a month on YouTube and he averages 20 million views and he has for a long, long time. So it's like, okay, I understand that there's this pressure to to produce content. I totally get it.

00:25:48:02 - 00:26:04:21
Speaker 1
I know how hard it is. I've been doing it for 20 years, but at the same time it's like I kind of think we've we've sort of hit and I know there's the giant debate about quality versus quantity and all that stuff. And yes, if you're just starting out and you're trying to figure out what to do, quantity is wildly underrated.

00:26:04:21 - 00:26:27:03
Speaker 1
Just post. I don't care what it is, but at some point you have to kind of be good at it. And even, you know, the low hanging fruit of, well, just post every day because nobody else is like that. That dries up really, really fast. And at some point you have to find a way to stand out, whether that's the format, whether it's the topic, whether it's your unique, you know, POV on something, whatever it might be.

00:26:27:05 - 00:26:45:22
Speaker 1
You just kind of have to spend the time to think about how do I do this? Like, you know, I go back to Ogilvy and his Hathaway shirts campaign and he was just like, Oh, this isn't working, this isn't working. What do I do? I don't know. Put an eyepatch on the dude. And like, all of a sudden there's this massive campaign because everyone's like, Why is he wearing an iPad?

00:26:45:23 - 00:27:07:05
Speaker 1
It's just the idea of intrigue. It doesn't have to make total sense. I mean, obviously they they created a character around it and things like that. But, you know, for me, like the the campfire Q&A, like there's no need for me to sit in front of a campfire and answer questions. It's just visually different than someone sitting in their office, you know, with the blue background or whatever and doing that.

00:27:07:07 - 00:27:29:09
Speaker 1
So it's just like it doesn't have to be anything major. It just requires a little bit of thought to just go like, okay, what am I going to do that's unique enough that gets people to just kind of go like, what? What are they doing? What's going on there? So again, I think it gets overcomplicated tremendously. But I also understand that that it it's hard because you got to actually take the time to think about it.

00:27:29:09 - 00:27:37:14
Speaker 1
And most people are on such a pace that they just stopping to think about anything becomes a luxury, and that's a whole nother topic. But yeah, yeah.

00:27:37:16 - 00:28:14:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. I feel that in my own business to where I'm like as a one person, one man band here, you know, I manage a lot of crews, freelancers, freelance editors and stuff like that. So like my time is already, like, taken up a lot. So, so like, it's hard for me to find time to, like, create content for myself and then much less have that be like, really inspiring content, like stuff that I'm just like, you know, because I'm like putting my heart into like my clients where my stuff takes all the back seat and I'm just like, Here's a little snippet from a podcast, you know.

00:28:14:08 - 00:28:34:19
Speaker 1
Which I mean, this is I mean, so it sounds weird. I you know, I sell people on the idea of creating content, but it's like for me, I believe my product will get me more work than me talking on LinkedIn. Like, I mean, I didn't experiment like where I was creating content on LinkedIn and I get some leads occasionally, you know, from social media and stuff like that.

00:28:34:19 - 00:28:53:15
Speaker 1
But like when I just stop and create really good work and then I do consistent outreach, I make way more money than I do by posting on LinkedIn. So I think the product has it for me anyways. The product has to come first. It just has to because if you haven't had any clients, does it matter how great you are talking about yourself on LinkedIn?

00:28:53:17 - 00:29:09:03
Speaker 1
So I would, you know, the marketers out there that are stressed out and overwhelmed and all that stuff, just take a step back and go like, okay, what's my real priority here? And me producing content every single day isn't the right one.

00:29:09:05 - 00:29:41:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's I just I just read I'm like a decade behind on reading four hour work week. This is like probably more than a decade. What is that, 27? I'm like almost 20 years. So and he talks about like he talks about like, think about, like what you do. What are like the highest leverage tasks that are working and why do we busy ourselves with stuff that everyone says we should be doing?

00:29:41:22 - 00:30:11:18
Speaker 2
And I think it was from this book because I've read like six different books in the last month. I think it was from four hour work week where he talks about there's two, I think it was like Wilt Chamberlain and like another basketball player that would shoot free throws underhand. Because that worked. Because that worked. Yeah. You know, and they had like some highest free throw stats in the universe or something versus all these people that want to look the part right.

00:30:11:18 - 00:30:35:07
Speaker 2
And are doing it in a way that's less effective. And I think about that a lot too. Like the times when I get stressed about content creation and what I'm putting out there, I think about like, is this me trying to do what everyone says that I'm supposed to do? Or is this me doing this because this is the most effective way to grow my business or in higher ed, The most effective way to get students?

00:30:35:07 - 00:31:00:22
Speaker 2
Is it is it posting, you know, on on TikTok four times a day like Gary Vee says that you should? Or is it like just really just like, I don't know, directly reaching out directly, you know, talking to students, building community in a different way. That priority uses like meaningful connections over a quantity of connection of like possible connection points when you're just like blasting stuff to social media.

00:31:00:23 - 00:31:01:23
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:31:02:00 - 00:31:12:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's like I just call it being boring at scale. Yeah, boring it. Yeah. It's okay. Congrats. I don't. All right.

00:31:12:07 - 00:31:24:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. It's like the spammers that will send you, like, completely irrelevant stuff, and it's like, I'm sure it works for one out of 5000 emails they might get. They might get something. So it's like, well.

00:31:24:23 - 00:31:43:17
Speaker 1
It's always the whole thing. You're like, We want to be top of mind. And I hear this constantly and I've been a part of agencies that pitch it constantly that we're going do this stuff to make people top of mind, top of mind, top of mind. And I, I understand the sentiment and in part I do agree with it, but like, I don't want to be top of mind, like I want to be, like, buried in their heart.

00:31:43:17 - 00:32:08:08
Speaker 1
I want to be like I want to be I want them to feel gratitude. Like when I like when I watch something that I really enjoy, whether it's a YouTuber or a movie or whatever. Like I remember that experience as a positive one. And on the flip side, like, I will never eat Skippy peanut butter if I'm starving to death and it's the last thing on earth.

00:32:08:08 - 00:32:28:14
Speaker 1
I'm just going out because I was watching this incredible short, short film. It won an Oscar. It was about a guy who stutters and like right at the climactic scene where you're going to find out if the hero's fears come true or not, Bam! It cut to a Skippy peanut butter ad and it's not Skippy peanut butter. His fault, you know what I mean?

00:32:28:15 - 00:32:47:04
Speaker 1
Just a programmatic by somebody. Put it on there, whatever, I guess. Sure. But it made me so mad like and this when you say it out loud, it sounds irrational and stupid like, okay, dude, it was an ad, get over it. But like, I was so invested in that moment, in that story, it was like somebody just walking up and punch, punching in the face where you're on a date, you know what I mean?

00:32:47:06 - 00:33:00:23
Speaker 1
And it was such a bad experience. And so even though it sounds crazy to say that out loud, that is how people respond to that stuff. And they remember it like they're just I'm mad at Skippy peanut butter every time I see him in the store. And then I remember that story. I just go like, makes me mad.

00:33:00:23 - 00:33:26:00
Speaker 1
But on the flipside of that, like, I want people to remember, you know, when they watch a video of mine that has, you know, it's just like this heartfelt thing about my daughter or a family member or whatever. Like I'm not there to go like, Hey, if you need a video next time, stay top of mind. I just want them to go like, Oh, hey, you know who like, is good at sort of like eliciting emotions in video that Make-A-Wish is happy about his daughter, like, because it's there.

00:33:26:00 - 00:33:48:13
Speaker 1
It's not here, it's there. And that's what I want to do. And that's what I wish people spent more time on, rather than just going like, Well, they saw my logo. Yeah, yeah, okay, they still don't care. But if it's like, man, if it's in here, like they, they care. And that, that to me is like the magic of the internet where you can you have this idea and it's rather in your brain and you like me, man, I want to communicate it.

00:33:48:13 - 00:34:03:08
Speaker 1
How do I do this? And then you put it out there and people are strangers all over the world, give you feedback in real time, positive and negative. You got to take both. But it's like to me, it's still kind of magic. And I love that process.

00:34:03:10 - 00:34:24:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah. The logo thing too. It's like it's so superficial. I get asked a lot of times to play on, you know, golf outings and sponsor golf outings for for unveiled my company. And I'm always just like, I'd rather just pay the money to like golf. That would be more that would rather that would be more of an ROI than putting my logo on something.

00:34:25:00 - 00:34:33:18
Speaker 2
No one and no one's going to care. No. Even if I have a whole written sales pitch on a sign or whatever. No caring. They're there to play golf.

00:34:33:20 - 00:34:53:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, I talk to their friends and all that stuff and they're not gonna remember your logo. It's like, Yeah, you know, I, I, I run into this constantly, you know, every video. They want it to start with, like some title card that has a logo and all this stuff, and I can shoot a drone in the world and you're like, this kills retention.

00:34:53:06 - 00:35:07:19
Speaker 1
You're going to do all this work and you're going to bore the crap out of people because you want them to stare at your logo for 10 seconds for the content starts and they're gone. So, so you're doing all this work and you're just sitting there as you do it. You're like, No one's going to watch this. I already know in advance, no one likes this.

00:35:07:19 - 00:35:16:02
Speaker 1
And they're like, Yep, but they saw the logo and you're like, Well, then just run a ten second ticktock with your logo on it. I don't know what we're doing here. Yeah.

00:35:16:04 - 00:35:42:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, I agree. And I think that storytelling really has such a lasting impression. Like emotionally, I remember I, I don't know if I've told this story before on this podcast, but I've watched back my wife and I before we had our biological daughters. We were getting into foster parenting and my wife works in adoption, worked then at in adoptions.

00:35:42:06 - 00:36:07:21
Speaker 2
She's a trauma therapist now, but we were going through the classes to become foster parents and then I got served. I think it was like a Vimeo staff pick of this movie called Removed. And it was it was like it was this, you know, storyboarded like, really like cinematic experience, you know, following this young girl through multiple foster homes.

00:36:07:21 - 00:36:26:06
Speaker 2
And you're seeing her behaviors and you're seeing her act out, but you're seeing why she's acting out and you're seeing the reaction of the parents reacting to the behaviors and not to the reason for the behaviors. And like grabbing her by the arm and just like you're you know, you get over here, you know, and that kind of stuff.

00:36:26:06 - 00:36:48:22
Speaker 2
And it just broke my heart. I in my last job at the last production company, I had gotten there early and I was just sitting at my desk and I was just crying. It's like you're just crying. And I texted my wife. I was like, We're doing the right thing. Like, we got we have to do this. And then like, my buddy comes in and I'm just like, wiping tears away.

00:36:49:00 - 00:37:15:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then I saw that I actually. So during that time, we were watching these boring, boring videos from the eighties or something on how to be a foster parent and, you know, blah, blah, blah, what, what to expect. And I sent them this removed video and they're like, we're replacing all the curriculum with this. And, and it was just like because it was that powerful for me.

00:37:15:18 - 00:37:29:13
Speaker 2
And I just that was that's always like stuck out to me is like a pillar of like that, like storytelling, quality, content, quality storytelling really moved me to I mean, that catapulted me to action, you know?

00:37:29:15 - 00:37:31:06
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:37:31:08 - 00:38:00:02
Speaker 2
And, and, and I don't think that we can always do that. I mean, that was like a quarter million dollars, even then. It was a little low budget, but still a lot of money, you know, to produce that with actors and everything. But but it really is embracing embracing what's beneath the surface, like finding stories to tell within your college, within your your company or whatever that that have something deeper to say than, you know, I liked the products and here's why I liked it.

00:38:00:02 - 00:38:16:23
Speaker 2
And here's the problem it solved for me. But but you know finding in my case, finding students that that really you know, they're first generation college students. And what does that mean and how does that make them feel and how does that color their experience through college? And why does why is college such an elevated achievement for them?

00:38:17:01 - 00:38:39:10
Speaker 2
Because of that? And why do they love your school that much more? Because of because of that, like that kind of stuff is is so much better than just someone saying, you know, I like my professors and and the small class sizes and and I got a job afterwards. It's just like, okay you we expect that you're going to get a job would be like remarkable if you spend all that money and you didn't get a job.

00:38:39:15 - 00:39:02:08
Speaker 1
Yeah so but that was like a huge reason that I actually kind of just left higher ed because I started making this joke that's like, you know, what do yoga instructors, youth pastors and university commercials all have in common? It's like if you've seen one, you've seen all of them, Like it's the same tropes, the same beats, the same anthemic music, the same infomercial about why the colleges are amazing or whatever.

00:39:02:10 - 00:39:24:10
Speaker 1
And I'm just like, universities are a goldmine of stories. I mean, you a gold mine, you have this entire population coming to this place now more online, but still, like you have this body of people who are like, they have dreams and they have goals and they're trying to accomplish them and they they want to do things that impact people in a positive way.

00:39:24:10 - 00:39:43:01
Speaker 1
And like, you know, all the reasons that they're doing stuff, maybe they're like, you know, first generation immigrants and it's like this is their you know, their whole family saved up to send this person to school. And, you know, there's so many good stories. And it's like you said, you just kind of end up with like the exact same thing over and over and over again.

00:39:43:01 - 00:40:07:00
Speaker 1
And it's so frustrating to see that because not only are the stories so incredibly diverse, like the opportunity for diverse storytelling is so radically diverse. And it's like you're telling me that of all these people that you can't find somebody who's like Mark Rober ish and, you know, doing amazing experiments and showing like the products of their work or like, you know what I mean?

00:40:07:00 - 00:40:21:18
Speaker 1
It's just like there's so many opportunities to, like not only just tell stories, but tell them in like a very diverse way and just sort of the way you bring it rather than the standard. Like, oh, you know, I wanted to do this, but this is my struggle. And then I found this university and I have a better life.

00:40:21:18 - 00:40:26:20
Speaker 1
And it's like, okay, cool, can we try something else? Yeah.

00:40:26:22 - 00:40:54:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would say like probably eight out of ten college YouTube pages that I go to have at top is like their hero video. And it's in it's a very similar sort of inspirational song. It opens with a drone shot and and then you'll see like some kids like ambling about the courtyard and in class, you know, it just it's like it's like they're all there.

00:40:54:07 - 00:40:58:02
Speaker 2
So I wonder if it's just like one company that's just.

00:40:58:04 - 00:40:58:10
Speaker 1
That's.

00:40:58:10 - 00:41:24:02
Speaker 2
Just pumping these out. They've just got a monopoly on like the top of people's YouTube pages. But, but I contrast that with University of Oregon is or Oregon however they pronounce it, has had this video called the power of if thing is that I think that's what it was called and it was mostly it was it was some like cinematic footage, but it was mostly just like really down to earth stuff that was just like almost user generated stuff.

00:41:24:02 - 00:41:44:10
Speaker 2
Like the mascot high fiving people and, you know, people just like just a lot of action sports and just achieving their dreams or whatever. And it was just told in a way that was like really inspiring. And I'm like, that's what people need. Like just it's a it does the same thing. It's a it's an overview video. But what that does is not tell us.

00:41:44:10 - 00:42:04:04
Speaker 2
Here's why, here's why. This is a great school. It's hell. It just says, like, I'm just going to give you the feeling of this being a great school and let you make your decision. Yeah, totally. Because it's just the the University of Oregon video. Just it just like it leaves you feeling with like, that's that is an environment I want to be in, you know?

00:42:04:04 - 00:42:04:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:42:04:11 - 00:42:21:05
Speaker 1
And it's centered around real concept. I think that's what a lot of people miss with storytelling is that they go like, Well, I don't know. We found some of the good with a good testimonial putting in front of the camera and you know, that's a great story. And you're like, okay, but like sometimes when you're doing more conceptual stuff, you have to have an idea behind it.

00:42:21:05 - 00:42:42:18
Speaker 1
And that's what I loved, you know, working with like Seth and our creative director, D.J. at SNH, you was there. It was constantly just like, it's not enough to just make something. It's like it needs to have the idea behind it. It has to have a concept behind it, because without that foundation, it's just kind of like another random story that I may or may not care about.

00:42:42:20 - 00:42:53:17
Speaker 1
And it it can get very drafty and it just doesn't mean anything, you know what I mean? It's just kind of like this thing you put into the ether and it's like, well, it might mean something, but it probably doesn't.

00:42:53:19 - 00:43:16:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, And we were talking before we recorded that. I mean, you kind of approach content differently, but you just approach business differently too. And even just like getting getting specific with who you're talking to and I messaged you, I said, Does homestead production have a website? So I'm like, I'm Googling homestay production. I'm finding all these like companies that like, help you, like live on a farm or.

00:43:16:12 - 00:43:19:06
Speaker 1
Like.

00:43:19:08 - 00:43:42:21
Speaker 2
Grow your own potatoes and make compost, but and you're like, not I'm a website. So tell me about that because I think that's interesting. I think I think you have a perspective on things where it's like, I'm going to do what I'm going to do. It works. It's it's different and it and it works. And I don't really care if I'm supposed to have a website or wherever.

00:43:42:22 - 00:43:44:14
Speaker 2
So just tell me. Tell me about that.

00:43:44:16 - 00:44:00:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, I don't I used to have one. And then I was like, This is dumb. I don't get any work this way. It's a pain. I hate doing website stuff anyways. And after being at, you know, I've worked at quite a few agencies and we would always have production companies come in and the first thing that they would show us, they're real.

00:44:00:20 - 00:44:23:05
Speaker 1
It was never interesting. It's just because it's just like this collection of stuff that's I'm like, okay, I don't this isn't really tell me anything other than like you're you can get a nice shot and who can't do that? So it's like, great, right? But it doesn't tell me anything about like the complete work you do or like sort of like why you do it or the results behind it or things like that.

00:44:23:05 - 00:44:40:23
Speaker 1
So for me, I'm just like, I'm not going to do all this stuff. Put together a real have a, you know, prospective client land on it and just go like, okay, I need to wade through the stuff and figure out if they do what I need was like, I just, I try to I always go back to I don't know who came up with that, but it's just like the confused mind says no.

00:44:41:01 - 00:44:59:20
Speaker 1
So for me, I'm just trying to eliminate confusion at every step of the way. So if I have somebody that reaches out to me or a referral, or if I'm doing direct outreach, you know I will and I have like five or six templates sort of lined up, I just use card. It's like, it's like the cheapest it's like 20 bucks a year or something like that for my website.

00:44:59:22 - 00:45:18:09
Speaker 1
And I just sort of have these sort of pre-built and if somebody, you know, from health care or whatever, I just sort of put those assets that speak directly to them and say, Here's exactly what I've done for other health care companies or whatever it might be, Here's how I do it has the results. But there you go.

00:45:18:11 - 00:45:33:19
Speaker 1
And that way they're not wading through a bunch of crap that they just don't care about is for me. Again, it comes back to the whole thing. It's like if they get annoyed, they're gone. If they get bored, they're gone. If they get confused, it's over. So I'm just saying I don't want any of that to stand between me and work.

00:45:33:21 - 00:45:53:04
Speaker 1
So that's how I do it. I'm not saying that's the way to do it or even recommending it. It's just that's kind of how it works for me because I can customize it. And like I said, a lot of times I'll put like a I'll just record a short, very personalized video for the person who's going to be coming to that page, and I'm just embedded at the top and send it on its way.

00:45:53:06 - 00:46:13:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, I like the idea of personalization though, because I because I think that's, you know, that's where a lot of things are going is and I read this I mentioned on the podcast before I read this book called I can't remember. I always forget what I always forget what the book is called. And I have to like search my, my library here.

00:46:13:08 - 00:46:34:08
Speaker 2
Up here anyway is marketing to Gen Z, and they're talking about how they a personalized experience and like how everything for them on social media, they like everything to be kind of customized to them and and then that on top of like yeah this I know dun dun miller from building a story brand is always like if you confuse, you lose, you know like don't make people burn calories.

00:46:34:11 - 00:46:55:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know to, to try to figure out what it is that you do And I think a lot a lot of times too in higher ed like we try to be very high brow you know and artsy and flowery with our language and it's like what what is the value that I'm supposed to get out of this?

00:46:55:19 - 00:47:09:10
Speaker 2
Like, like you should be able to just know exactly, like in a couple of sentences what it is that a company does or school the value of school provides. But it's like that trying to just be real artsy. And yeah.

00:47:09:12 - 00:47:33:04
Speaker 1
I remember I was in Germany once on a school exchange for like a month and I'll never forget this. I was in like a marketplace in, in Germany. And, you know, I was hanging out with, you know, my friends and things like that. And like, I heard English. Someone was speaking English like a ways away. And I was like, instantly I was like, I speak English.

00:47:33:04 - 00:47:58:17
Speaker 1
Like, it just grabbed me. I like, you know, all these conversations going on in German, like I heard English words and it just like whomp, I just zoned in on it and it's kind of like that's one of the ways that I sort of approach personalization and content and things like that, where it's like I want to not necessarily be the thing that everyone listens to, but when they hear me and it's the right person, I want them to go like, Bam, that's for me.

00:47:58:19 - 00:48:27:22
Speaker 1
Like that. Is it because it was just like, I just I'll never forget that moment where it's like, man, all the conversation. I picked out that one and they were talking, right? So it's like, you know, if you can do stuff like that because like, you know this to like with video stuff, I don't need 12,000 sales a year to have a great year any ten you I mean, so for me taking a little bit of time to personalize stuff and do it like the outsized ROI of that is so good that it's like I wouldn't do it any other way.

00:48:27:23 - 00:48:29:06
Speaker 1
Really?

00:48:29:08 - 00:48:53:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, that's great. So what's what would be kind of a closing thought here? Like what would be your charge to higher ed, higher end marketers? Like what? What is it that we're not doing enough of. We should be doing more of what? Just an open ended question What would be your encouragement to higher ed marketers?

00:48:53:09 - 00:49:22:02
Speaker 1
Oh man, I honestly, I don't think the problem is higher ed marketers. I think it's higher ed admin. That's the that's the big that's the real barrier like and you know, I don't know, trying to like crap on anybody. But for me, in my experience with quite a few universities, it's like if they just internally embraced the values that they externally shout to the rooftops, I think university marketers would have a much easier time doing their job.

00:49:22:02 - 00:49:42:18
Speaker 1
I don't think there's like a you know, I used to I used to joke back in the day that like, you know, if you're a university marketer, you could be ten years behind the times, but still ten years ahead of university marketing. And I think that that gap, I think is closed a lot. I've met so many smart, smart marketers in the higher ed space, and it's not their issue.

00:49:42:18 - 00:50:05:18
Speaker 1
It's that it's the admin that just, you know, they talk about innovation, but they won't be innovative in their storytelling. They talk about like, you know, all these values. The university incorporates. And then when it comes to sort of like promoting it, it's just like, nope, And they kind of lock you into these kind of traditional fear based, you know, very like, well, what if we make somebody mad?

00:50:05:18 - 00:50:25:02
Speaker 1
What if we, you know, and it's like, it's the Internet, somebody's going to be mad, Just don't care, right? I mean, like you're trying to make people mad. That's a problem. But just because somebody gets mad at you, if it's like someone that you're never going to appease anyways, don't care about them, don't care about them, just care about the people who are going to care about you.

00:50:25:08 - 00:50:39:20
Speaker 1
So for me, it's like I don't have like a magic bullet. I don't think that there's like some giant strategy that all the higher ed marketers are missing out on and things like that. I think they just are beating their heads against the wall when it comes to the admin, honestly, like, I don't know how to solve that.

00:50:39:20 - 00:50:44:16
Speaker 1
That's why I don't do it anymore. Yeah.

00:50:44:18 - 00:51:08:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I definitely that, that stuff comes into play a lot where it's just like the you're sort of the gatekeepers are, are above the people that are kind of managing the video and so it just gets by the time it gets to them, it just kind of gets like watered down and it's like, wow, we can't you know, we can't we don't want to offend this person or that person.

00:51:08:23 - 00:51:31:10
Speaker 1
And then it's, you know, it's that old saying that like nobody there are there are no statues to committees. And unfortunately and I understand why, like people want to be collaborative and do all these things, but at the end of the day, somebody has to have a vision that carries something through, especially for creative work, and you have to hire people that you trust and give them the reins to fail.

00:51:31:12 - 00:51:48:13
Speaker 1
And because it's not, even when they fail, the stakes are pretty low, you know? I mean, I mean, I get the money and all that stuff, but the stakes are pretty low when it comes to failure on the Internet. And so it's like you have to give somebody the creative point and say you're in charge of this project.

00:51:48:15 - 00:52:06:12
Speaker 1
You're the final say. Obviously, we'll give our feedback and things like that. But this idea that you send a video to the Borg and then it gives you feedback and then you have to please all these different people, it's you're instantly going to just create junk, it's going to suck, it's going to be boring, it's going to be lukewarm, it's going to appeal to nobody.

00:52:06:17 - 00:52:18:04
Speaker 1
It's going to make nobody mad. And it's just like the perfect university product where it's just like, nobody cares and they love it. So it's just like you're like, okay, I guess.

00:52:18:06 - 00:52:27:19
Speaker 2
But yeah, yeah. The measure of people becomes like the measurable becomes not, not if their audience will love it, but if the, the leadership loves that then exceeded.

00:52:27:21 - 00:52:32:18
Speaker 1
You're not the target audience. So I don't care if you like it Does the market like it.

00:52:32:20 - 00:52:42:02
Speaker 2
Dude, it's great having you on the show. Where can where can people connect with you at LinkedIn. Yeah.

00:52:42:04 - 00:52:55:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's right. The easiest way. Like I said, I don't have a massive web presence. I have, you know, an Instagram, an account that I occasionally post to and a LinkedIn account. And it's kind of it.

00:52:55:01 - 00:53:07:14
Speaker 2
All right, awesome. We'll go check out my stuff on LinkedIn. I encourage you to check out the content that he posts and the wisdom that he shares on LinkedIn. But yeah, this is great. Thanks for coming on.

00:53:07:14 - 00:53:09:01
Speaker 1
Yeah, any time. I appreciate it.

00:53:09:03 - 00:53:29:02
Speaker 2
Thank you so much for listening. Definitely go follow Mike's stuff, go follow him on LinkedIn and you'll get a lot of good learning from him if you just watch the content that he that he creates. It's really interesting. And so three things I want to give you before you go. Reminder to go to pricing DOT unveild.tv.

00:53:29:02 - 00:54:02:00
Speaker 2
If you're interested in learning more about her subscriptions and how that can help alleviate a lot of the stress from your content creation, from your marketing team while scaling out, scaling up the output significantly of, you know, really quality content, emotion driven content. And so, yeah, pricing got unveiled that TV, go pick that up. Number two, if you want to take the storytelling that you're already doing to the next level or you want to incorporate storytelling into your strategy to begin with, I have a free resource for you.

00:54:02:00 - 00:54:28:06
Speaker 2
It's a three part framework for creating compelling student and alumni testimonials, and you can get that unveiled to TV slash student testimonials. And that doesn't even have to be for video. Just put the framework to use in any format in which you tell student and student and alumni outcome stories. Number three I would love for you to leave a review for this podcast because it helps me out a ton, helps people find this thing in the first place.

00:54:28:08 - 00:54:35:16
Speaker 2
Thanks for listening. My name's John Azoni Go connects me on LinkedIn. In the meantime, we'll catch you on the next episode of the Higher Ed Storytelling University Podcast. Thanks.