Higher Ed Storytelling University

josie--john_full_length sep 15,

John Azoni: [00:00:00] So, how long has it record?

Josie Ahlquist: It's been a while but yeah, I mean, I feel like you podcast long enough. You've like done every screw up possible. Right. So,

John Azoni: yeah, here we are. I got like four questions in with a with a high, high profile guest one time and forgot to record. Cuz it says like on Riverside, it says like the fact that it says a red, it's a red button that says record.

There like confuses me. So now I'm like, there has to be numbers rolling. I'm a video guy. I should know this, but even

Josie Ahlquist: I mean, yeah, I've had it all. I had someone that was like camera off. I'm pretty sure He was like in the car. I'm like, are you in a good place to do this? And then another I had last season His internet kept going in and out and I mean, my editing team was able to make it work, but yeah.

John Azoni: I, my, I'm on a [00:01:00] streak of tornadoes, uh, interrupting my podcast. So we don't get, we don't get a lot to tornadoes in Michigan, but the two like tornado warnings where there's actually been like, it's actually been kind of serious had been right in the middle of. I've been doing a lot of uh uh recordings and both times power went out.

Josie Ahlquist: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

John Azoni: So, that's my that's my curse. Okay, cool. So, do you, how do I, is your, is your last name pronounced Alquist?

Josie Ahlquist: Alquist. Alquist. Josie Alquist.

John Azoni: Alquist. Got it. And then, Would you like me to refer to you as Dr. Allquist, Dr. Josie, or just Josie, or what do you prefer? Just Josie. Okay, great. Awesome.

Alright. So thanks for sending me that stuff, by the way. That was really helpful. So I've got a whole list of questions here, and we'll get rolling. How long are we chatting

Josie Ahlquist: for? [00:02:00]
John Azoni: Uh, typically like an hour. The episode will go for like 45 minutes probably. Is that okay? Do you have that much time or

Josie Ahlquist: do we need?

No, it's all good. I was just curious. Okay, cool.

John Azoni: All right. There

Josie Ahlquist: is a little bit of a delay on my end. And you're a little pixelated. I don't know if that's, I mean, obviously this is an audio thing, but I just want to make sure I'm all good from your side.

John Azoni: You're good over here. It might be internet weirdness over here, uh, on my end, but it is, it is video, but like it'll record the it won't show up pixelated.

It'll be, it'll record. That's what, that's why Riverside works the way it does is it like records the video. You're

Josie Ahlquist: local. Yeah. No, I've really loved using Riverside for sure.

John Azoni: Yeah. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Internet. Uh, also one of the conversations my wife and I had last night about how annoying our internet is lately.

It's just [00:03:00] like, uh, it's, it'll, it'll, we like constantly have to reset the router. And, and it's like super annoying to do that.

Josie Ahlquist: Yeah. I keep getting ads for like the fiber optic, whatever, but
I'm like, I don't know if I can bite

John Azoni: that bullet yet. We don't have, we don't even have that here in, uh, where I live.

I'm like really dying for it. Cause I like, would love to just be able to send
clients like video. They're raw footage, you know, like, and I have to ship a hard drive but we're not quite there yet.

Alright. So, I'm just going to read your um we we will have done the theme music by the time we get to this part and then we'll just be starting with like my
guest today is Doctor Josie Alquist. Um yada yada and I'll read your little bio. I
kind of shortened your bio a little bit. Um so, hopefully, it's still accurate.

I mean, I didn't make anything up. So, hopefully I didn't cut out anything, uh, incredibly.

Josie Ahlquist: No, it's [00:04:00] totally fine.

John Azoni: Okay. All right. Off we go. All right. My guest today is Dr. Josie Alquist. Uh, Josie is a renowned expert in digital leadership, guiding educational leaders, organizations, and students through speaking, coaching, and consulting her practical and, uh, evidence based frameworks, empower clients to create tailored digital engagement strategies.

Among many other things. Uh, in 2023, uh, Josie was selected as a NASPA pillar of the profession, one of the highest honors for the field of Student affairs. Josie is a three time LinkedIn. Top Voice in Education has been recognized by EdTech Magazine as one of the top 50 must read higher. Uh, top 50 must read higher education technology blogs for five years.

Her podcast, Josie and the podcast has been featured by the Chronicle of Higher Education and Inside Higher Ed. Her new book, Digital Leadership and Higher Education Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World was [00:05:00] listed as an Amazon number one new release for college and university student life.
So Josie, thank you for being on the podcast today.

Josie Ahlquist: Yeah, thanks for having me.

John Azoni: I do. I, I did listen to, your, your podcast today. And it's, it's very good. I will say your personality comes across like so bubbly and just engaging. I was like, this is very fun to listen to.

Josie Ahlquist: Oh, that means a lot. It has been an evolution. Well, not only just in the podcasting industry, which you're familiar with, but well, you must not have caught the one where I like broke down and cried.

You really haven't podcasted until like you really show all of your emotions. But yeah, I, uh, I'm really enjoying it and it'll be coming back soon. Well,

John Azoni: that's the one thing, one of the things I listened to the Uh, influencer marketing episode, uh, this, this morning as I was putting together my daughter's birthday present, [00:06:00] uh, her birthday parties tomorrow.
That's my, that's my major contribution to the birthdays is like putting stuff together. So I feel like, you know, yeah,

Josie Ahlquist: it takes a team. I am horrible at wrapping gifts. I don't know if that was involved, but. No,

John Azoni: just, just screwing stuff. Just reading directions,

Josie Ahlquist: screwing things together. Oh, oh, the actual, oh gosh, no, that would, That, that takes patience, yeah.

Yeah,

John Azoni: but what I did like about that episode, you mentioned, and I'm,
I'm, I'm looking forward to going back, uh, uh, through your older episodes, but you mentioned uh, a mental, mental health, uh, component, which I just really resonated with, and I really appreciated your, just sort of, willingness to be vulnerable you know, with that kind of stuff.

So maybe we'll have you back on the podcast to talk about that. Cause that's a, that's a near and dear topic to my heart.

Josie Ahlquist: Yeah, absolutely. Just getting to have those like honest conversations with ourselves or all of your guests I can[00:07:00]

see you.

John Azoni: Oh, you froze up and then stopped talking. Anyway okay.

Josie Ahlquist: Oh, I could, I could see you. You were still a little pixelated, but.

John Azoni: Okay. I must just have to reset my router. Let's try to get through this. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Alright, cool. So, Let's have you. So today we're talking about, uh, involving, uh, students in the content creation process, uh, which I think is a really great topic. I'm excited to learn more about. I know that's kind of like a hot topic for a lot of listeners to this podcast. So introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background and then we'll kind of cruise into that stuff.
Josie Ahlquist: Absolutely. So, as you kind of shared in my intro, I come from the world originally of student affairs. I fell in love with college the second I stepped foot onto [00:08:00] college and found out I could do it as a job. And around that time is when social media started to arrive on our campuses with MySpace and the Facebook and YouTube.

And... It was always a student that would come running into my office to say, Josie, have you heard of this? Or like, are you on this? And that still happens today, right? But probably like even more platforms or it's like a meme or a, or a YouTube video. And while I didn't start out in marketing, it was my own natural You know, just curiosity about social media that lent itself as I progress in my career to always look to integrate it.

So I was in student activities and we were putting on over three events a week. So we were marketing any way possible. And so I just knew immediately like, well, we're going to use Facebook. Like this is, but I didn't know at the [00:09:00] time. That like, I won't say the institution, they like put a
moratorium, like no Facebook accounts on campus and I just did it anyway, and so my joke is like I almost got fired over Facebook, not because like I posted like a wild and crazy post, but what was also so unnerving to my leadership was I immediately gave the keys over to students because we were trying to connect with students and it wasn't just like giving them the passwords.

Like, I trained them just like I would any other student that would do other things. For example, the student union and created really, kind of specific positions that became very sought after because when you see like a marketing manager role then all these comm majors come out of nowhere or like graphic design or a street team.

And so again this was like over 10 years ago when I was based on a campus. So fast forward [00:10:00] today I continue to just be completely I don't work with students in like a day in, day out capacity. It's something I extremely miss and why I've done some recent work within that. But I also know very firsthand,
like working with students also isn't perfect.

So I wouldn't be surprised if listeners. Yeah. If listeners are like, yeah, I've tried this Josie. And so we can talk through that too.

John Azoni: Yeah. Sounds good. So, what, well, you know, I forgot to ask you before we get more into the, into the, the, the topic here, tell us something. Let's back up a little bit.
Tell us something that people would be surprised to know about you. We'll have my editor re reorder these questions

Josie Ahlquist: here, , so, okay. Put this one first. All, all good. . So, so I have a lot of secrets. I have a lot of surprises. I thought though, and I don't usually like just throw around this one because it feels, I don't know, but you, you are in [00:11:00] video production.

And so I thought you would appreciate this is I have been in a YouTube video that has been viewed. millions and millions of times. I shot it the day after I defended my dissertation in 2015. My husband is the co creator of Epic Rap Battles of History, and so I was in one of their videos very briefly.

And so. Yeah, that's my fun fact. Epic Rap

John Azoni: Battles of history. I'm going to look this up right now. What is that, uh,

Josie Ahlquist: They're cool with your nephews and uncles and, and all kinds of people enjoy them. But Yeah, they're a good time. And

John Azoni: education. 14. 9 million subscribers.

Josie Ahlquist: Wow. Yeah, they've been at it for a while.

John Azoni: Is that, is that like a major source of [00:12:00] revenue, like income for you guys?

Josie Ahlquist: We, yeah, he, uh, that, that's what he does now. He also owns an improv, uh, well, not just improv, but a comedy club. That's where he was working at the time when the videos blew up. So, wow,

John Azoni: that's cool. In the profile picture of the episode, there's a guy with yellow sunglasses and then a guy with like a newsboy hat.

Which one is your husband?

Josie Ahlquist: Probably the news boy. He doesn't, Pete's probably always in the glasses. Yeah.

John Azoni: Alright, cool. Alright, well I'll dig into that on my own time.
Josie Ahlquist: Some good week, weekend viewing.

John Azoni: Yeah, well that's really cool. Okay, so getting back to the, uh, this, this, this student content creator.

Why, why is this kind of a, an important topic to you? I know you told me, uh, kind of how you got into it. Why has this become an important topic to you? And I know you do a lot of teaching and stuff around this as well.

Josie Ahlquist: [00:13:00] Oh, gosh, I feel like this one's got layers because specifically related to social media and technology.

Honestly, it's almost always a reverse mentorship or influencer role. Like, we're probably not going to be the ones to discover like what's trending or what tools are being used. I even joke when I get up. You know, in front of even presidents. I'm like, do any of you have like, seventh graders in your house?

I was like, I want to talk to them because they're gonna, they will know not only trends that I will probably not be able to pull off with a tire. But yeah, they are setting. Uh, innovation and so it's, it's kind of reversed in some other ways that like we, we need to respond to and at least know about the other piece is, and this is from my own story is college was such a pivotal.

developmental time for me that I feel like, again, it [00:14:00] was just so very impactful that I can see myself and, or I know, uh, even like developmentally what the students are going through, like in their minds, bodies, hearts, spirits. And so, uh, especially when I worked with college students a lot, I could kind of.

Almost like move them through these moments and transitions along with teaching them specific skill sets. And that's what I love to do. It wasn't just, you know, like teaching them a course or like I could meet them where they were and get, because they were so excited, for example, like putting on events or like running marketing and doing graphic design, we could find that intersection.

And now. You know, like I have some students that have graduated. I don't know how many years it's been, but it's been a long time that they are much further in their careers and I can just see their path. Like that is so, honestly, that's the thing I miss that I don't have, you know, more of those [00:15:00] students now since I'm again, not at a campus, but they're working at places like TikTok and Hulu and working for Beyonce and, and doing marketing like that.
All of these positions. That's what I think I really want people to take away from, is that these need to be developmental moments. These can be real skill sets that your students can go into. And they're not all going to, but also to teach them how they can be transferable. Because that's the warm and fuzzy stuff that sometimes you may not get as often that I think can be such a benefit.

So, we know that in marketing and social media that we may not give as much credit to, we might only focus on, well, I need these deliverables from them. That you're actually part of maybe a bigger process in their life. And again, I've, I've just feel like that can be so transformative.
John Azoni: I love that the idea that the, like the new, the new career path. It's like, you know, back when [00:16:00] When I was growing up, like, you
know, I want to be a school bus driver. Uh, there's a home video of me and my
sister and my dad interviewing us both about what we wanted to do. And I got really excited about being a school bus driver. And I ran and asked my mom if she would ride on my school bus when I was a school bus driver.

Uh, Doctor, firefighter, those kind of things. But now it's like, this is a
legitimate career path content creation. For, and I see this in my kids, my oldest, especially Ellie. She's eight is very, she's super into fashion. She's very good at
it too. I'm like, we're like, she'll come downstairs. I'm like, you thought of that outfit?

Like that is. And like, I think she gets it from, you know, in part from these YouTubers and stuff like that. Now, I don't let her watch like TikTok and just like go rogue on YouTube shorts and stuff that come up on TV. But like, you know, she, she does follow these, these people that her, her age have.

millions of, [00:17:00] of followers, these like, these kid bloggers, these family vloggers, things like that, and she's watching people make, you know, a living off of this, and, uh, and, and it's, and it's cool that you know, if, if, if not being some sort of You know, influence or a personality. The idea of taking a phone and just documenting something and having an injecting your personality into that and having that be a marketable skill is really interesting.

Josie Ahlquist: Yeah. Well, a recent survey came out, like one of the top careers that YouTuber.

And for some that sets off alarm bells, but they have obviously been influenced like, again, I'm not a parent. I could only imagine like all the tricks you have to
have In your sleeves just to get through a day, but kids are given phones often early [00:18:00] to, to explore and hopefully with some, some measurements in place.

But even my niece, Maddie, she's playing YouTube. She's playing. She's like, hi guys. Today we're going to end like she's just playing in my. Sister in law's recording her and it's so adorable, but also like, holy cow, like that behavior.

John Azoni: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Some of the best videos of all time of my kids have been, uh, when they've been playing YouTube.

My, again, my Ellie, my eight year old, she, She's, she went through a period of like, believing that there was an audience in the iPad, you know, like, they're like watching her live, you know, and she would record this video and she would just, it was just like, you'd see the things that went on in her head, like when no one was around, like.

Like she was just like fully herself and she would like talk to her audience and talk about like things that were happening at school and things like that. And for one reason or another, she'd like show us, [00:19:00] you know, me and me and Laura,

Josie Ahlquist: you're her audience

John Azoni: and we'd save it. So we say it some once in a while we'll watch back these, these videos and we're like, this is so hilarious.

But yeah, she's a trip. But, uh, so, okay engaging students in the content creation process you've mentioned why that's, why that's, uh, important for you and just so, so we can kind of bring some clarity to this, like, what, what does that look like? Like, talk about maybe a campaign, like, let's just say, let's just say, you know, a school has like a brand ambassador program or something like that.

Like what, What are we talking about here? Are we talking about like, you know, hiring them to create content? Are we talking about finding the influencers in that group? Like just paint a picture of what this campaign, uh, could look like that, that we're talking about here today.

Josie Ahlquist: I mean, we see a wide range of examples.

I still see posts of someone saying I finally got to hire my first [00:20:00]
student intern. So even just getting one student. Isn't easy and is something to
celebrate, but we also see maybe institutions with more resources that have, like you said, a ambassador program or an entire YouTube channel that is just students vlogging or a TikTok channel that's completely, you know, like student run.

So there's, you know, like kind of a spectrum and I don't think there's like a one size. Model that fits, I would probably say it's heavily based upon what resources that you have and support for the concept. We still have a lot of executives that would be uncomfortable with giving students so much voice, especially if they are.

Like CUNY that is completely student run TikTok, like, I don't think they get those approved. They [00:21:00] just like post fully on their own and sometimes they haven't gone great, at least in like a professional's perspective. They're like, what are they doing? But they also, when they hit, they hit. So it is.

Change management comes up so much in social media and marketing that we are kind of changing the definition of what it means to market, what it means to involve students in decision making, and being actually the face. Like, it might be better to put their faces on versus your president or, you know, like your,
your creepy mascot.

That's a, that's a big shift for people. Not all mascots are creepy, but some.

John Azoni: No, of course not. But we, uh, the, that's, that's a thing. I feel like it's an epidemic with, with video production where you know, so many clients that I've worked with, not, not, I mean, so much of it has been outside of higher ed.

But they, they want it. They, they feel like it, it won't be a, it, [00:22:00] it couldn't possibly be a video if they didn't have their CEO in it or their president or something like that. When it doesn't, it's like they pay no attention to like what their audience actually cares about. It's just kind of like, And it really becomes clear that the measurable for the marketing team is appeasing the president or appeasing the the stroking the ego, you know, like cuz it's like if he
or she is not in it, then, well, what does that say about, you know, how this place is being run and stuff like that and so that's why I'm always beating that drum of like pick people to be in the video or be in your marketing that.

are actually going to make a difference with, you know, your audience and it might not be your college president.
Josie Ahlquist: But some are, like their personality, they're just like coming off the screen and it really, it really depends. And every student, even if they have an interest in it, they may not be quite [00:23:00] ready to be on screen yet.

Like, again, that might be some. skill sets that they, they need for you to get the kind of content that you need. So there's so much educating and coaching up that we, that we have to do you know, to executives and, and more so. Yeah.

John Azoni: And speaking of education and, and coaching, you sent me a great list of just things that people listening to this might run into if they're.

Wanting to embark on this, this effort of engaging students in, in content creation. So I thought we'd just kind of go through that and just, just riff on those. So the first one would be the fact that we only get this group of, we might only get this group of students for a short amount of time, maybe three years sometimes only a few semesters.

So tell me, just expand on that thought for me.

Josie Ahlquist: Well, yeah, I mean, this is both a blessing and the curse of, of a higher ed and working with students is that our ultimate goal is to get them out of here, right? But [00:24:00] and you may have, you find, you might find a student in their literal last year. And so you get them for a semester, maybe that full year.

And so there is a unfortunate short cycle of, You know, like you, you almost already have to build in a, a plan to lose students. You want them to move on. You want them to get an internship at a company that they're going to get hired at right after school. So again, it, it situates these positions a little bit differently that of course, like we are going to come to rely on any students that we hire, but there is a nat, there's a natural reality here that there, I don't want to call it a revolving door because ideally you're able to retain students within a realistic
period of time and provide progression along the way but that will be one of the [00:25:00] challenges that you face is that they will eventually in a shorter period of time, move on.

John Azoni: Yeah, and you mentioned students that you'd hire, and I'm curious because I've, I've talked to many marketing directors that some have done a stipend you know, for content creation. Some have had success getting them to do it for free. What You, what are, what are some of the dynamics in play? Like maybe talk to the person that's, that's like, ooh, we don't have like a position
open for this, but like how, how might they be able to start engaging students today on a free basis?

Are there incentives that they can put into place or, or what?

Josie Ahlquist: So I find you get what you pay for. And so if a, if a student doesn't have a necessary, you know, like expect, if you're just, for example, trying to naturally get user generated content know that again, like you're going to be up against a few more challenges versus if you might have something more formally in place.

The [00:26:00] first thing, if you haven't looked into federal work study that your institution has That you might, there already might be earmarked funds for your department or division that wouldn't necessarily come out of like your marketing budget. And students are already like wanting those and applying for those.

There's also some other position types sometimes based upon institutions that they almost like a scholarship that they earmark for. student worker position. So again, like explore all options not to think like, Oh, this automatically has to come from an operating dollar. The next would be to look into creating an internship with your career service office that again, at least you can formally
set it up so then they could get some kind of credit and benefit.

The last one would be to try to work with a faculty member within a course. So it may be, it could be project based. But ideally that you're [00:27:00] paying these students, especially if it's like, you know, like a legitimate position, you're paying the minimum wage. And I realize with some states that it, you know, that's increasing as it should.

I do know there's some ambassador and influencer programs out there that are set up more like. student involvement and leadership positions, but I would also say those probably have some street cred already. Like students know they're really cool things to be part, like, so they have a reputation built up already.

So, just know if you're starting something really brand new that you might need some time to build that up.

John Azoni: Yeah, definitely. And I, I've, I've definitely heard you know, some folks talk about. You know, working with the existing marketing and communications department and like building a class around it or building, you know, uh, yeah, like a, uh, what do you call that?
Like an independent study sort of program around, uh, content creation and, and things like that. Have you seen, like, where, [00:28:00] where, where do you find, because you mentioned our pre call, you mentioned, like, college, uh, or like, uh, uh, club presidents and things like these, these people that might have, like, a greater commitment than just going to someone, uh, Walking up to a random student, walking across campus and say, Hey, do you want to create content for us?

What are, what are some of those like where, where people can kind of look for some of those people that might have a more consistent presence, you know, in

Josie Ahlquist: there? Oh, like for recruitment sake. Yeah. I think the, some of the most successful marketing directors I've talked to that hire students, they hardly have to.

promote their positions. If anything, they are doing their own social listening and finding students who are already posting content on TikTok or, you know, like Instagram. They might be in other positions as well. That also is just nice for their own. Natural influence to be involved. I wish [00:29:00] college athletes wouldn't be so busy and traveling all the time.

I was one. I think that's why I'm always like, don't forget about athletes. But cause they also could bring in a lot of their own cause they get so much training on branding you know, name, image, and likeness now, especially, but, so yeah, I would say do your own research first. I'm sure you'll get people to apply for the position if you, you know, are posting it through the student job board.

But with knowing some of these are really specialized skills, you may want to already see what fish are already swimming in those platforms that you would want to feature.

John Azoni: Yeah, definitely. Suhu has already got a knack for it. And, and maybe already be in a rhythm. I've seen some really cool, like, student
generated stuff on, uh, in, in what I think is cool is like, it's, it's kind of a sidebar from their actual brand and they're using.

The, the college as sort of a platform or just like a topic or something like that. I saw a fashion Blogger, I [00:30:00] think it was for a college in Canada, maybe Several months ago and and and she did this whole day in the life of like her first her first day on campus I don't know if she was a freshman or it was just like one of the years she was a sophomore or junior or something like that, but like kind of her first day like here and she went to all our classes and she's
recording and her doing selfie videos and kind of doing little narrative like, uh, testimonial, you know, dialogue in between and, and stuff like that.

And it's like 10, 10, 12 minutes on really interesting. And I watched that and I'm like, not only is this, yeah. cool for, from like, anyone could watch this and be like, okay, this is what it's like to go to this school. But the amount of like tick tock videos that you could. Cut out of that of like, you know that that's that's always where my brain goes to is like how can we report?

How could you repurpose? Yeah, and it's just like one video once to just have one student just say hey [00:31:00] take a take your phone and just document your Day, give us the footage and it could be as it could be as I love that and you could You could get so much extra content out of it, but the interesting angle was that she had every outfit that she was wearing, she had an affiliate link in the YouTube description and was like, if you want to buy any of these outfits, you know, click the link or whatever.

And I'm like, that's really cool. Like if, if you could figure out how to crack that code of like tap into what they're already, what do they already want to promote, you know, you know, and how can you kind of, Yeah. Like sidecar or whatever the school, the school in there as kind of like a, a unique way of like reaching a new audience or, or whatever.

And then I saw one. This morning or yesterday that was like, uh, she was like I want to say she was like a beauty blogger or something like that and for some, somehow she just talked about some, she did this vlog of her talking into cameras like a day in the life of her in college or whatever. And she [00:32:00] connected it to some beauty things that she was doing.

And I was just, that's, I just thought that that was a really cool angle, you know,

Josie Ahlquist: I mean, I think related to, yeah. Including students or, you know, even alumni into our content or their own content kind of goes back to that episode you listened to on influencer marketing. Like I buy stuff from tech talk shop now, like adults, we do this, we find stuff on Instagram and then we're buying the Nike shoes or going to that concert and.

College students do that too, and it works even better when it's like a peer, like someone you relate with or that like looks like you or you identify with in a, in an authentic way. And, you know, maybe it's not the sell of like, you're going to click to buy to go here, like just with this one video, but there's a million things we're trying to get students or alumni to do, whether if it's giving or to go to this
event[00:33:00] that sometimes they weren't influenced or get such a bad rap because some don't use that influence well, but again, that's where.

working with a student and training and teaching them and having strategy behind it. I think there, that's a big gap that I think we could tap even further into in higher ed.

John Azoni: Yeah, absolutely. Getting back to kind of some of these hurdles that, uh, that we were talking about, one of the other hurdles is this, this may be the first.

So for the people that are hiring, maybe someone, an intern or, or, or some sort of professional job, this may be the first office or professional job that they've, they've had. So are there some additional challenges that you may have seen
that have come along, that come along with that in addition to like helping them create good content?

Yeah.

Josie Ahlquist: Yeah, I mean, what does it mean to reply to an email when you're when your CMO is also CC'd? Uh, I know I needed to get coaching of like, Josie, stop using like a whole bunch of [00:34:00] dots or, you know, like, I don't, The word professional also has some negative connotations. And so like professionalization or just what it means to work in a different work culture, again, those are skill sets.

We're trying to set them up for whatever they're going to next. So it's not even just like all about attire, but like some of it's technology. Some of it's, you have to give a lot more coaching maybe about timeliness or. Responding to communications and again, that might be a sticker shock for somebody that's used to working with someone who has had a job before, not to say that all students haven't had a job before, but like this might be their first quote unquote, officey kind of job.

And so, yeah.

John Azoni: I remember my first job. I just, I still cringe at some of the dumb, like. Blunders that I made, uh, just not understanding. The culture, you know, I, I worked [00:35:00] for a big nonprofit and I came in there as like, I was just very like into like social justice. And I was like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to use this as an opportunity to like, get this organization to care about this other thing too.
And I like. I emailed the entire staff, including the CEO and was like, this, this thing is really important. And my, my boss had to talk to me about how, like, you don't just email the CEO. And, uh, and now I look back, I'm like, what was I thinking?

Josie Ahlquist: You're just so empowered. Yeah. Oh my goodness. You

John Azoni: know. Guns blazing.

And I think that's, that's, I learned so, so much in that job about, about you know, corporate culture and how just the politics kind of work and stuff like that. And I think that's such a good skill because like, if you can learn it in college before you actually get on a real job, that's the best place to [00:36:00] learn it, you know?

And so in addition to learning how to do your job of content creation, there is so much soft skills of like, Yeah. Timeliness, uh, with, with emails. What, what's a professional sounding email, uh, versus, you know, what, how do you write an email versus a text? And I, I, and I'm sure that's not lost on people, you know, like that you're not typing like.

You are like the letter U, the letter R to say you're, you know, in a professional email, but like, but yeah, I mean, there's, there's a lot of stuff. I would imagine that there's, there's expectations of time, like timeliness, I think for sure is, is
one of those things. And, you know, not just like letting something sit there until you kind of, you know, they're waiting on a response from you and stuff like that.

Josie Ahlquist: Well, and I feel like some of it goes back to the skills the supervisor needs to have in supervision period, but also specifically if you are supervising a college age student and and, and we've already talked about a few of those, you know, like [00:37:00] realities, but but that, but that skill set is something that you'll want to evolve and work with.

And I, most universities have like. Career offices, student employment offices that, you know, if you're looking for additional training, that might be a good spot for you. But also to think about how can you provide something even beyond the classroom for them? So the, and it's going to be just in the way that you operate, but like.

What to expect at your first pitch meeting, like I know a lot of marketing directors that like they'll have their students come in to do a pitch like cool to do
that in a classroom, but also to do that in real time that you're going to then see it the next week on in the tick tock feed like that, that's such great, like experience that these students are getting or like, how do you create a storyboard?

Maybe you're not in any of those majors or classes and you can actually realize this new skill that you're actually maybe really good at and [00:38:00] into. Yeah, so yeah, you just

John Azoni: reminded me too of when you said pitch meeting. And just like kind of an educational resource. One of my favorite masterclasses, like, you know, that whole masterclass, like video series or whatever was the one there was one.

And I, I'm blanking on the name of the agency that they come from, but they're the, they're the people that, that came up with the got milk campaign. And and so they talk all about the got milk campaign and like Superbowl commercials and their whole ideation process. And as a content creator, it was like.

So valuable and they do they do a whole module on pitching your ideas and like, you know Don't go into a pitch meeting like telling people how to feel like oh, this is gonna be really funny Yeah, you know you're gonna you're gonna love it and things like that. So even just you know training materials that are Out there are there

Josie Ahlquist: you go. Yeah, absolutely repurpose
John Azoni: So cool. So, and then, you know, then there's this issue of you know, varying skill levels [00:39:00] with content creation. How, how do you work with, how do you suggest schools work with students that may have different video knowledges? Are you training them on the same video editing platforms or like, how do you even the playing field a little bit?

Josie Ahlquist: Yeah. Well, I know this kind of goes against like. The, what we talked about earlier is like, go out and find the students already creating the content. But even in that, just because they're doing that doesn't always apply immediately to your platforms and channels, right? Like, how it means to create content for the campus brand is different than their own brand or platform.
Or the processes that are maybe involved behind it. Again, I would... Really encourage you to think of this in a developmental way, because I'm sure there's a lot of, there might be students that are really excited, but they don't have a lot of skill sets. So how could you create a team model that allows for, and, [00:40:00] and this model really worked for me because I would get them as freshmen and in like entry level.

So I had like street team or like marketing assistants. And so they're also like. Able to be part of a team, get excited, get experience. So by the time they're sophomores, they're, they're gaining experience. And now there may be in more like supervisor levels and creating content. So again, keeping them over time.

Because some of this stuff does take a little bit of time, but I would just say, Hey, don't assume, but it does also mean you've got to train students, a minimum, what your brand. You know, like what your brand is. Voice and tone is actually really difficult to train and some of that will need to be on the go.

But to plan that, the other commitment you're, I think, need to give to students is that they are going to need to be You're not, you're need to, you're going to need to give them your time. [00:41:00] So maybe that's check ins every other week in person where you just ask them, how's it going? How are you? Like not just about the content and then there's also time for actually like one on one coaching.

There's actually student development theory called Sanford's Theory of Challenge and Support. And this can kind of go against sometimes when we're so focused on deliverables and outcomes and metrics and marketing that especially to a student in this developmental period of their life, if we are only challenging them, they may shut down.

They may, you actually may never see advancement that and it's honestly one of the simplest Theories out there of like try to have some balance right like like The sandwich method whatever you call it, like their their growth is going to be substantial but um Have have kind of that lens behind it The

John Azoni: sandwich method, the positive, negative, positive [00:42:00]
feedback.

Love that. Very familiar with that. So one of the other things too that you mentioned is that this is an opportunity for schools to really kind of carry through the values of their school, not just, not just in hiring someone to Do some sort of acute meet, some sort of acute need, uh, for content creation, but
really training them and, and, and really in investing in them for the long haul so that when they leave, they're, they're able to function in, in the workplace and, and go be better content creators.

Talk, talk about just that, that need to be really investing in students. You've mentioned it a little bit, but yeah, just give us a little more about that.

Josie Ahlquist: I guess it would just be the note that I would see bringing out a student intern is going to be more than just relieving your to do list that you know, like it, it, the mission of a university is to educate and to transform.

And I know there's a zillion mission statements out there [00:43:00] that probably say it a million different ways, but like you're part of that in marketing. And this is just one. Slice of that. It's not to just like get a whole bunch of deliverables from them. So, so to be invested in who they are as a person and as, as well as what they're actually creating for you, I guarantee it is going to pay
off in a million ways, if it's just for like.

lifelong connection, but I wouldn't be surprised if then they're giving back to the institution when they're an alumni or again, like they're able to hire someone cause now they're working at some agency. Cause what I do find though, is
some students have some pretty negative experiences working in a position on campus because they're kind of discarded in a way of like, we'll just do this dirty.

Like, like a go get my coffee kind of thing, and not like literally go get my coffee, but like if you're gonna hire a student, make it an impactful [00:44:00] role. And again, not just for busy work, but to be invested in, in a holistic approach. And I think everyone's gonna benefit if you can approach it that way.

Yeah, absolutely.

John Azoni: I, I at this nonprofit job that I was, uh, working at, we had a business consultant come in and help us develop this program. And he was like, cause we were in the midst of like thinking about hiring interns. He's like, you have to know that when you hire anyone, like you think that they're just going
to come in and take work off your plate immediately, but there's such a dip like in onboarding that person, it's actually going to be very, it's, it's expensive.

It's way more expensive and more time consuming and resource draining than you think for that person to actually get to the point where they're going to start
taking stuff off your plate. So you have to like account for this, this major investment in in really, really on ramping that person.

And then one of the other things you said, and we kind of touched on this a little bit was, you know, the need to teach students more than, strategy. So talk [00:45:00] about like you, we, we already mentioned soft skills, but, but you mentioned here, uh, time and wellness. What, what, what, what, what's, what's involved in those things?

Josie Ahlquist: Right. So, well, you've got your own platforms of like the emotional curve of like being on Instagram, but when you're running a brand account And the social media managers listening are going to get this like you see it all you see the tags you see the comments if a student also is on your Instagram account and seeing that same thing like you need to develop some trust and discussion points of you know like the content that we see might trigger us or the amount of work might impact our mental health and or just being a student is going to be quite a The journey, right?

And, and to prioritize that you're checking in on the student if they are taking care of themselves. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. If your student doesn't have their most [00:46:00] basic needs met, they are not, that's probably a reason why they're not performing for you. So again, that kind of goes back to the holistic piece.

But listen, I, I come from a family of content creators. I have seen firsthand What impact it has on your wellness to be creating content and having changes in platforms And I mean, that's why we see so many youtubers quit or like tiktokers go quiet and I do think Going back to these roles might be the first that these students are having in a professional role.

That you are also kind of getting, giving them the behind the scenes tools to be equipped. Whether if that's administratively, but also holistically, emotional wellness. You know, spiritual wellness. And that might mean that you're sharing, well, this is what I do from, you know, I really try not to check email after this period of time, or I do these [00:47:00] types of turning off notifications, or again, just being able to talk through with someone when a comment comes at a piece of content that a student worked.

So, so very hard on. So, so those are a little bit of the soft skills, but specifically what doesn't get talked about a lot is the emotional toll that social media can give to those that are managing it. And especially if you've got a student that's
so excited to make this into a career, they're going to have to start to navigate that right away.

And so I would definitely prioritize that, that type of coaching.

John Azoni: That emotional intelligence thing is huge, especially when you get that negative comment. It only takes one. negative comment to ruin your day. I am the worst at that. I, if I get like a negative comment or just someone
responds weird to eat to an email that I think is, you know, they're being snarky or whatever.

I [00:48:00] cannot stop thinking about it all day. And I like throw every psychological tool at it that I can to just, okay, we're just going to let that thought. Sit there. We're not gonna we're not gonna bring it down and fight with it and think about what I Could say or what I wish I'd said or whatever like
we're just gonna let it float there and then I'm just like and then It's subconsciously.

I'm just still thinking about it. I'm like mowing the lawn and I'm like, man, I
can't believe they said that jerk

Josie Ahlquist: Well related to a brand and this may not ever fall onto a student's shoulders but in crisis What are your brand standards and guidelines on replying to comments or what are policies they need to know about?

You know, it's almost like critical thinking for social media management. It's again, it's not just about creating content. It's about some advanced decision making and considerations.

John Azoni: Cool. Yeah, [00:49:00] it definitely well, we're uh, wrapping up here and I just, I, you know, super thank you for coming on. This has been, uh, this has been a really good conversation.

I did want to touch on a couple other things. So you we didn't really get too much into your like, Doctorate, doctorate, doctoral journey or anything like that. But you have a dissertation on college students use of social media. It's called College Students Use of Social Media Developing Digital Student, uh, Leader.

Uh, where, is there some, some place where people can dig into that more?

Josie Ahlquist: It is on the internet. It's on a platform called ProQuest. I'm going to be honest, I don't recommend reading it. It's 500 pages. I have, I mean,
dissertations are like, it's a lot there. I'll send you a couple of links for like some shorter journal articles.

You could always read the last chapter too. But it's, it was a mixed methodology research project of college students and how they were really using social
media. In 2015. So it's super [00:50:00] outdated already.

John Azoni: At least run it through chat GBT or that's how I read. Like, that's how I read like most like studies, like really academic studies.

I'm like, all right, let's just skip to the conclusion here.

Josie Ahlquist: That is smart. Please help me understand

John Azoni: this. Narrow this down, make this a one pager for me. So, and then you got a book out, uh, it's called, uh, digital leadership in higher education, uh, purposeful social media. Tell us a little bit about that book.

How'd that come about? Where, where can people get it?

Josie Ahlquist: Yeah, so you can buy it everywhere. I mean, not in Barnes and Nobles, but you know, like internet, Amazon, all those goodies. This was the result of my research on campus leaders and their use of social media. So a lot of case studies, a lot of frameworks for whether you want to be an executive or you are one about how you can show up and not just You know, go viral and be [00:51:00] on brand, but actually be authentic and resonate, especially for students.

And so there's lots of, like, that one is also pretty long, but there's like pictures and stuff, so that . Okay. That's good. .

John Azoni: Cool. Well, awesome. And I do, uh, suggest people listening to this. Go check out, uh, Josie's Pod, Josie's podcast, Josie and the podcast, uh, That's got, yeah, Josie podcast. And, uh, I had like a little brain was like, did I say the right thing?

But the, the one, the one on the, the, the influencer marking is a, is a great like piggyback, I think off this episode. Cause it goes into, you go, you go into a lot of like. Really kind of like how to engage, you know, mega influencers, uh, how to build campaigns and, and, and come up with agreements with them and and expectations and things like that and nano influencers and all these levels of influencers that I thought was super interesting.
So definitely go, uh, listen to that, subscribe to the podcast. And is there any, uh, anywhere [00:52:00] else where, uh, you know, people should look to find you at?

Josie Ahlquist: I'm everywhere on the internet. I live in LA. If you're ever out here, let me know. I have a new program for college students. It's called the Student Social Media Academy.

It kind of fills the need of like having students coming in and out a ton and you needing to train them. We kicked it off, uh, last month. We've got about a hundred students from all over the country. It's a self paced course and then we have Discord. So we are teaching the skill sets. The core skill sets that students need to get going right away from, from brand guides to content creation and analytics.

So, check that out. I'd love to have your students in there. Cool. Where can

John Azoni: people

Josie Ahlquist: check that out at? That's at my website, JosieAlquist. com and just search for student academy.

John Azoni: Cool. Awesome. Well, Josie, this has been great. I super appreciate you, uh, gracing us with your presence and, and, uh, giving us your, [00:53:00] your insight into this topic.

It was great having you. My

Josie Ahlquist: pleasure. Thanks for having me.

John Azoni: All right. We'll end the recording there. But cool. This was great. Thank you. One thing I wanted to, you mentioned on that podcast episode, uh, university. fm.

Josie Ahlquist: Oh, shoot. You just start breaking it. It was good. Sorry, repeat that. Oh, can you hear me now?

Yes. You just broke up.

John Azoni: Oh, , you were mentioning on that podcast episode university fm. Yes. And uh, yeah, so I actually, funny do, so you know Robert Lee Uhhuh? ? Yeah. So he , so he fr he uh, we became friends on LinkedIn. And then
randomly we were like, wait a minute. You live like 15 minutes from me. So he lives like

right up the street from me. We got coffee [00:54:00] recently and we were just like, that's hilarious. We've been like following each other and didn't realize that he's just like. A bike ride away from me. Right

Josie Ahlquist: down the street, wild. Yeah, I worked with them for the first time this last year and it took such a weight off of producing my own show, because I was always like, this person does editing, this person does the graphics, and yeah, they've been a huge

John Azoni: support.

So you can just show up, basically, like record the episode and then they'll... Do they do all the distribution? Yeah,

Josie Ahlquist: I mean, I, just because I have control issues, like I create the show. So they're not like writing the, they do it for some of their partners that they're, they're researching the guests.

They're writing the questions. But I do primarily all of that. So it's more of the in show and after show that they help us. Yeah.

John Azoni: Okay, cool. Yeah, I saw when I heard University FM, I'm like, I think that's Robert's thing and I looked it up. I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to, I have to tell her

Josie Ahlquist: this story.

Yeah. Well, [00:55:00] they started out as alumni FM and I was like, it's kind of confusing. I might go broader and so they rebranded. Yeah,

John Azoni: yeah. Good for, good for them. Okay, cool. Well, this will
probably come out in a couple weeks and cool. I'll send to you when it does and we'll go from there. Yeah.

Josie Ahlquist: Okay. Do I need to stay on for it to upload or anything or,

John Azoni: yeah, leave the tab open.
I think we can hit, yeah, like leave the conversation and then just like leave the tab open for

Josie Ahlquist: sure. For a minute. Yeah, I know. I have to warn guests sometimes. Like, tell Dave please. . Yeah, .

John Azoni: Okay, cool.

Josie Ahlquist: Awesome. I appreciate it. Great talking to you. Thanks, John. Okay. Take care. Bye-bye.

Bye.