Higher Ed Storytelling University

John Azoni: All right. My guest today is Lizzie Chen. Lizzy is the assistant director of digital media at Moody College and has been there for five years. She started as their social media manager and now oversees all the digital storytelling and social media. Before that, [00:01:00] she worked in non profits. Uh, and the newsroom.

John Azoni: She is also a graduate of moody college with her master's in journalism Uh today we have lizzie here to talk to us about the five c's To running a social media campaign with limited resources. That's the general topic. I don't know if that's the official title But uh, but but that's what we're talking about today lizzie.

John Azoni: Welcome to the show.

Lizzie Chen: Oh, yeah Well, thank you so much for having me

John Azoni: john Absolutely. So introduce yourself. Uh, tell us, tell us a little about your creative background cause I know you're also a pretty accomplished photographer and a content creator yourself.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah. So I've been at Moody for five years now.

Lizzie Chen: Like, like you mentioned, I started off of as their social media manager and I grew into like, leading the digital storytelling efforts. Which includes, like, video storytelling, creating all our, you know, B roll, bank photos, photography, [00:02:00] and you know, visuals for our web stories online as, uh, as well.

Lizzie Chen: And, I also, I do a lot, like, outside of work, too. So, I also freelance. I'm a freelance photographer. I've, you know, been on Neopolisher, like, numerous, like, media outlets, and I also teach photography at our local community college here, and so yeah, really I just have like, I love like, creativity and content creation, like um, and so I don't know what I would do without like, creating content.

John Azoni: That's awesome. What kind of photos do you find yourself taking, like what do people hire you for

Lizzie Chen: mostly? So I I love film photography, so definitely it's weird because like when I first started off in photography, it was like a huge, like people were pushing for digital and I did a lot of digital photography, but now there's this, you know, revival for film photography.

Lizzie Chen: So I actually have like, you know, [00:03:00] major outlets still hiring me. Because of like, they love my film photography and they're like, this is the vibe we're going for. So like, and they'll actually pay for like, you know, film and processing fee, which is awesome. Cause that is very expensive, very expensive. Yeah.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah, and, and just like all my personal projects, like, you know, shoot them all on film. I'm a huge, you know, fan of Kodak. So, definitely shout them out, too.

John Azoni: We need to revive Kodak a little bit. I saw they were kind of making a little bit of a comeback. I can't remember what I saw, but it was

Lizzie Chen: something.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah, and so they, you know, totally, like, went bankrupted, uh, like, I think a decade ago and, but now there's this huge revival because of like social media. And, and that's what it credits like to this revival of film and love for film is like Gen Z. They've started, you know, taking photos on film and sharing it on social [00:04:00] media.

Lizzie Chen: And, and that's definitely something, you know, we use here at Moody. Like I'll have like students go out with like a disposable film camera and I'll get that developed. We'll get it up on social and like, people love it. Cause you know, I think students are looking for that like, Uh, like, it's more like authentic, it's real.

Lizzie Chen: So, yeah.

John Azoni: It's, it's, uh, the thing about film photography that I can't wrap my head around is not being able to see what I just took a picture of.

Lizzie Chen: I love that. That's one thing, cause like, For me, I think that makes you a stronger, like, photographer. Cause then, you're, you know, like, You know, when we're all shooting digital, you're just like clicking away sometimes, like I do all the time.

Lizzie Chen: I'm just like, I'm like, why did I spend like 30 minutes, like shooting like a thousand photos, right? Whereas film, you've got like either like 36 exposures or 12 exposures. And so it really forces you to like think about the image you're creating and and yeah, composing like that scene that's in [00:05:00] front of

you.

John Azoni: Yeah, really picking your moment. So tell me, okay, tell me, what's something that people would be surprised to know about you, maybe on a personal level?

Lizzie Chen: Personal level yeah, so I think it's I'm a huge fan of Kean F. D. Hill. It's and what people, Don't know is that like I fall asleep every night to King of the Hill like it's literally like my sound machine the only way I can fall asleep is listening to Hank Hill's like voice like as a lullaby And so so that's why I own all the episodes and and every night like right before I go to bed I'll turn on an episode and like next thing.

Lizzie Chen: I know I'm like knocked out. Yeah I'll make it like halfway through an episode and And then, and now I'll go back to the next thing and, you know, re watch that episode. But a huge Camp De Hill fan.

John Azoni: Wow. I, I, I got on a King of the Hill spree for a while. It's been a long time since I watched it, but it is a very funny show.

John Azoni: Yeah,

Lizzie Chen: and they're gonna have a reboot, so [00:06:00] like, I know there's been this huge, like, revival even for a lot of our students, you know, at UT, they've been re watching Camp De Hill to, to get ready for that, that reboot. Awesome.

John Azoni: That's cool. Do you sneak a lot of like, uh, Hank Hill, uh, memes into Moody's content?

Lizzie Chen: I don't, but I should. Yeah, I do that on my own personal account. Mom was like looking like, Oh, this will be so great. For, for yeah, for, for social.

John Azoni: Yeah. Awesome. Okay. So we're talking about the five C's to running a social media campaign with limited resources. So I got to ask first, like, tell me about your background, maybe with making things with limited resources.

John Azoni: It could be photography with limited resources, video or managing a social campaign with limited resources. What's, what's kind of been your personal experience with that?

Lizzie Chen: Yeah. So, you know, working like, Previously, like, working in, like, various, like, [00:07:00] newsrooms or as a journalist and even in social, uh, and non profits, like, those are two, like, industries where there are, like, very limited resources, right?

Lizzie Chen: And so I've had to think, like, more creatively about how I can, like, maximize my, my resource or my budget or even my time, because, like, And many of these roles, you're wearing multiple hats, right? And same with like higher ed, like we all could use like 10 more people on a team. And so, so my role, like I, it's, it's all about like planning and and really like being extremely organized and like how I plan my day.

Lizzie Chen: And making sure that like every time is like. Use like Tutor Max. Yeah. And in a beneficial way. And so I've, and, and I think that's helped me like be more creative [00:08:00] about like the type of content we're creating and also and making sure that we have content all the time, even with a very small team.

Lizzie Chen: We have content, you know, every day. And, and that's because of like, You know, lots of planning in advance.

John Azoni: Yes, which we will get to. I mean, content every day is the holy grail. So, okay, so the, the, we won't give away what the five C's are, but the first C, uh, according to you is community building.

John Azoni: Offline and online. So, uh, just tell me about that. How did those two bridges of community building connect on like a practical level in a social media campaign?

Lizzie Chen: Yeah. So for me, like, obviously as a social media manager, like we all know that like social media plays an important role in like everyone's lives today.

Lizzie Chen: Right. I mean, we probably all spend way too much time on social media. I mean, even just [00:09:00] last summer, was it May or June, like, I think the United States, you know, you know, surgeon, he issued like a 19 page document talking about the effects of like social media on teenagers, on young people, and how it impacts their mental health As a social media manager you know, creating content for that population, I'm constantly worried.

Lizzie Chen: Like, how am I playing a role on their mental health, you know, like, this is, you know, you know, or how can I bring more joy to their mental, their, their lives? Like, how can I create this community? Like, he'll build a community you know, for them. And so that's why it's important for me to. Build a community online, but also offline too.

Lizzie Chen: And I'll talk more about the offline part later. But at Moody, you know, one of our core values is community building. So, I wanted to, you know, implement that into my social media strategy. And so by really being [00:10:00] inclusive and giving all students an opportunity to be featured on social media. And I'm talking about your everyday student who doesn't have her 4.

Lizzie Chen: 0 GPA but is still doing great stuff, you know, who's using our skills at their cool internships or at a business that they started and we also want to include not just our faculty but also our staff who are often not seen you know. And also using social media as a resource, not only for like news announcements and events, but also providing resources such as like mental health or like scholarships, financial aid for our students and also have a background in like journalism and nonprofits, like I mentioned.

Lizzie Chen: So like community engagement is something that I really value and enjoy. So I love bringing people together. And that was something, you know, after reading that report from, like, the U. S. General Surgeon, I was thinking, like, how can we create, like, more, [00:11:00] like, you know, like, make social media this positive tool in our lives.

Lizzie Chen: And, and so, this semester, I started to... Do more like using social media to bring people together in person. And So for example at the beginning of semester we had we invited students to come make bracelets of friendship bracelets, you know with our social media team and And that was really because I was inspired by Taylor Swift's you know her towards a summer and also All of the friendship bracelets that her fans were like making and trading with each other and I thought I could bring that vibe to Moody.

Lizzie Chen: And, and it did really well. At first I was like nervous like, oh, are people going to come and make bracelets with us? And people actually came and we had like so many students at our table. And it was just so like magical for me to see like students like have conversations like in real life. You know, because oftentimes [00:12:00] as a social media manager, you're communicating with them.

Lizzie Chen: online or through a DM, through comments, and so it was nice to like meet a lot of our students in person and, and really for them to like have like these conversations with each other that weren't forced you know, like they found out they were from like the same hometown, from like the same state, or they're in, you know, the same classes together, so it was just something fun to do that got together.

Lizzie Chen: People like from behind the screens. And that's just one example of like building that community and like, yeah, online first of bringing that into like real life.

John Azoni: That's cool. I mean, a surefire way to get people together is a Taylor Swift angle. Did you go? I'm

Lizzie Chen: actually not even a Taylor Swift fan.

Lizzie Chen: Like, I don't know many of her songs, but like, I just spend like way too much time on the internet and like trying to like. Fine, like, okay, what are people liking? Like, what's [00:13:00] popular? And

John Azoni: so. It's interesting, it's like, we're in the Beatles era of like, people freaking out over the Beatles. That's like Taylor Swift right now.

John Azoni: Yes, yes, it really

Lizzie Chen: is. Like, Taylor Swift and Beyoncé, you know.

John Azoni: Beyoncé, uh, yeah, like, the 80s was probably Michael Jackson. What would be the 90s? Spice Girls, maybe? I don't even think Spice Girls. I don't even know what's. Backstreet Boys. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Obviously, Backstreet Boys, NSYNC. Yeah. So, uh, yeah.

John Azoni: We're, we're living in a moment of history here. My daughter's a huge fan of Taylor Swift, like, loves her. I, I like Taylor's music. I, I actually, I actually am a closet, like, old school Taylor Swift fan. Like, I like her country, country stuff a lot better. Oh,

Lizzie Chen: yeah, yeah. I do like her, her, her country stuff too, like.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah, and so, because of, like, how, like, popular she's been. I mean, she's always been popular, but I feel like lately there's been like this push for her like Yeah, her music, you know, went back and listened to some of her music and I was like, wow, [00:14:00] you know, this is actually pretty good. And I'm like secretly in my car, like, you know, blasting Taylor Swift.

Lizzie Chen: And then, and then when like someone wrote next to my car, I'm like, oh, I got to roll my windows.

John Azoni: It's cool to like Taylor Swift now. It didn't used to be cool. Definitely agree with that. Yeah. Okay. So next C would be creative content and jumping on trends. So. So tell me about your team's approach to content and like, why, why are trends important to your workflow?

Lizzie Chen: Yeah. So for us, you know, definitely like creating original content is so important. Like, I mean, part of my job as a social media manager is to really elevate like Moody College brand to like either attract and retain like our diverse talents and also increase. awareness for the college, right?

Lizzie Chen: So it's been very rewarding to work with our team on like creating original content. And with my video and photography [00:15:00] background and storytelling you know, uh, you know, like making real some like short videos like came natural to me. And so, I think the value of like original content is like priceless because you know, like you can have like an account with A lot of followers, but if you don't have like engaging content or you know, original content, you're not going to like stand out among.

Lizzie Chen: Like your industry. And so, you know, I always tell people, you know, try and stay away from Canva. Like that's always my tip. You know, cause everyone else is using Canva. So when you're browsing social media, you'll start to see like this, that same template. It's just with different fonts or different colors.

Lizzie Chen: Right. Yeah. So, For me, like, you know, we, we try and create everything like info shop in design or illustrator so that we're ensuring that our content is unique and original. And I also rely a [00:16:00] lot on our interns and now we have a full time social media and digital content coordinator who is super talented.

Lizzie Chen: She's, uh, uh, an illustrator, so we'll have her illustrate a lot of stuff. So that it's. Content that no one else can like duplicate anywhere else. And another tip is for me, like, having authentic content is important. So like remembering that we're not creating content for ourself. Like I'm not creating content for me.

Lizzie Chen: Like I'm not the audience, right? So like, so like, you know, instead of like posting like a headshot of a professor. Or, you know, or a headshot of a student like instead I'll ask that professor like, Hey, send me a photo that your partner took of you on your iPhone, on the iPhone, like at a park and seeing that photo, it does so much, you know, perform so much better than that headshot that people normally post because you have, you have to put yourself in that student's mind.[00:17:00]

Lizzie Chen: Like they're often browsing, you know, their feed late at night. And yeah. And if they see the headshot, they're gonna think like, oh, this is brand new content. It's coming from the college. But whereas if they see like, that professor in the park, like, on an iPhone photo, they're like, oh, hey, cool, this is, you know.

Lizzie Chen: This is more relevant. Right? So, so that's another one of my tip is we, you know, we always try and like post informal photos or we'll go out there and take the photo. I mean, I'm a photographer, but I'll still take that photo on the iPhone. And really yeah. And then as far as like trends, like, I, Hey.

Lizzie Chen: rely a lot on our student interns and other staff member to like bring those like trending audios to me. Because like, since I became a mom, like the algorithm has totally changed. Like now I'm seeing all toddler in my feet. So like, it's really like having conversations with people, like. You know, you know, tapping into like, students [00:18:00] or your student interns or even like family members, like, and ask them like, what are the trends and like, and you know, it's my job to make sure like, okay, how is this trend appropriate?

Lizzie Chen: Like, how can we like capitalize on this trend to make sure that we're still meeting like our the goals of the college, right? And you know, sometimes I'll even log into like, you can log into your accounts. And then and see like what's, you know, showing up on a for you page or or yeah, what's, you know, being fed into your algorithm.

John Azoni: That's a good point. The with the algorithm is that it's easy to. I mean, what's trending could very much just be what's in your algorithm. Like in my, in my tick tock algorithm, I get all the, like, my husband's an idiot kind of things kind of posts. Cause like, uh, like, Oh, I told my husband to do this and he forgot or whatever, you know?

John Azoni: And I, cause I, I share those with my wife all the time. And so I think. It thinks like I'm the, the, the audience for that. I think they're hilarious, but but [00:19:00] that's not necessarily what's trending.

Lizzie Chen: It's true. Yeah. Cause, cause you know, and, and it's it's really targeted at you as a user. Cause like, sometimes I will see you like the same audio over and over and I'll share it with some of the other staff and they're like, I've never seen this trend because like, you know, everyone would have different trends.

Lizzie Chen: So just remembering that what, what's trending for you may not be trending for like your audience.

John Azoni: What's a good, so I'll tell you what, what I've learned about trends and you can tell me anything on top of this, but like being able to like identify a trend by if you see something that you've maybe seen multiple times clicking on that, well, at least on Tik TOK, there's, you click on like the button in the bottom, right.

John Azoni: Where it's like, see where, see other people that are posted this content and like, see how many people are. Are using that if there's like 10, 000, 20, 100, 000, you're going to get lost in the mix. But the, the advice that I've heard is like, if it's like 500, 600, like that's a sweet spot to like jump on that [00:20:00] trend.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah. So, so for me, like, like, we'll, we'll look at training audios into a way, like if it's one, that's, you know, got like millions of like uses, you know, definitely we'll jump on that trend. Cause I think. Sometimes, like, the higher number, like, it's still, like, relevant enough to where if you share it, like.

Lizzie Chen: You know, someone will watch that and your audience will, you know, that one will know that one. But yeah, like sometimes if the, like, if it's like a few thousands, like that's also for me a good time to jump on that trans so that you're not lost. And, and like the mix. Cause like, yeah, for me, when I'm looking at, you know, audios, I like to click on what other users are looking at this and now kind of like scroll through, like, Okay, like, this is how they're using this trend.

Lizzie Chen: But for us, like, at Moody, like, because we're in the higher ed sphere, like, I'm always, like, looking at trends and memes and making sure that, and just knowing [00:21:00] that not all trends are appropriate. Because, you know, you don't want to stereotype people. You don't want to, like, make people feel uncomfortable.

Lizzie Chen: You know, what's funny for the general masses may not be funny in higher ed, right? And so... But, but we will use trans to like in humor to like remind people about deadlines or my students about like resources that are available or using it to like highlight our, like, you know, directors and chairs who are often not seen you know, on social media.

Lizzie Chen: And, and, you know, by having them do like something silly, like, or showing off their outfits or, you know, a dance, like it also humanizes our college leadership and. And, you know, they're not seen as like, Oh, there's, you know, someone who sits up on the fifth floor, you know, and so, so really like humanizes them and, and that allows the students to, to connect more to, to our college leadership.

John Azoni: Yeah. And I think with, uh, on the topic of trends, there's, there's [00:22:00] one like thing that I notice is it's a really fine line between. Because you talked about creating original content that people aren't copying. Uh, it's a fine line between being original and, and, uh, and being appropriate and being relevant to your students and also, uh, and also, you know, creating stuff that's just played out in an, in just cause it's easy to just copy the trend and do exactly what everyone else is doing with that.

John Azoni: What I appreciate in my feed is like, is like. You know, the trending sound or something, but someone has a new take on it to some new take on it. This new thing in life that's funny that you didn't, that's relatable that I didn't think of. But what drives me nuts is like, you know, I get a lot of like moms with the kids, their kids kind of trends and like they're all, they all do the same dance.

John Azoni: The same way or that or some funny audio and they just do it. They just do it the exact same way. Everyone else. And I'm flipping through. I'm like, [00:23:00] okay, you can do it too. Okay. Got it. Yeah. And that drives me nuts. So that's, that's, that's

Lizzie Chen: what I think crazy too. And so like, so we're always trying to like, okay, like, let's not copy exactly what you're doing, but like, let's have our own like take on it.

Lizzie Chen: And so, so, and, and then, yeah, even for me, like, Like, like how, how can we make something different by using that, that trend? So that's, you know, you kind of make that user like stop, you know, and like watching and not just be like, Oh, it's another, you know, it's the same thing. Right. Yeah. But again, really like tying it all back to like Moody College and.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah. And, and what we're here for.

John Azoni: So then there, you run the risk too with the trends, I think of, of trying to chime in on a trend and, and coming across like really out of touch or like, God forbid, cringe, you know, like a brand's coming in here and trying to do this cool thing that the kids are doing.

John Azoni: And it just does not land. Like how, how does, how do you [00:24:00] guys at Moody kind of, when you're thinking through trends, think about how can we appropriately tie this back to the brand?

Lizzie Chen: Yeah. So, I mean, Like we don't jump on on all trends because again, like I'm always like worried like okay We don't want to like stereotype people.

Lizzie Chen: We don't want to you know, make people feel uncomfortable Or you know, sometimes a lot of these trending audios like, you know, they're you know you know, you don't want to poke fun at like right, you know a certain group or and so we'll always make sure like okay, like how can we use this to like You know, elevate our brand or help amplify, you know, people at the college or use it as a resource and so a lot of times, like, you know, our interns will, will bring me training audios and, and then I'll kind of sit through and okay, be like, okay, this is [00:25:00] appropriate.

Lizzie Chen: Like, are we, you know, we don't want to be you know, seen as like, uh, too silly or or it's like cringy. And so, so that's why I like, and often, oftentimes like, well, in like anything that we do with our faculty now, like they, it always performs really well. Cause I think students like saying they're, they're professors and like college leadership online and, and seeing that they are interacting like and like, you know.

John Azoni: Yeah, it's like seeing your, like, Your church pastor in jeans or something

Lizzie Chen: Growing up like I remember like seeing like my teacher In your elementary school teacher like at their grocery store. You're like, yeah Yeah,

John Azoni: I ran into my principal once at CVS with my mom and then it was just an awkward interaction because it was just like, you're not used [00:26:00] to, you're not used to that level of authority in like, you know, down at a CVS.

John Azoni: Okay, cool. So, The next seats. Okay. So, so let's recap. We've talked community building offline and online, creative content and jumping on trends. The next one would be communication and trust from upper management. This one's huge. I'm super excited for you to talk about this because I think this is one that I think The majority of colleges probably struggle with on some level, uh, is, is either they struggle to give up trust or they are, uh, or they struggle to give up control and to trust their team, or they're struggling to get that trust, uh, depending on where they fall in that hierarchy.

John Azoni: So tell me about that.

Lizzie Chen: So, I like honestly cannot do my job without like the trust of our chief marketing and communication off officer. So shout out to Kathleen Mabley cause like from day one, like she trusted me and I'm so grateful for that. Cause [00:27:00] you know, like you mentioned, John, like talking to other colleagues in this industry and higher ed, like.

Lizzie Chen: That is a huge issue like is gaining that trust to be able to run the social media accounts. Right. Yeah. And so like from day one, she handed me over the accounts, you know, let me like explore them, experiment, you know, build our audience, make mistakes, you know, you know, grow. And, you know, and now we have a very dynamic community because of that.

Lizzie Chen: And, and I think it's so important for not even your direct supervisor, but like college leadership to really understand the value of social media and and also to recognize that and to, to trust. social media managers to do their jobs, right? And, and I've been so very lucky that we've, yeah, I mean, we are at a college of communication, so obviously our, our deans, you know, they value social media.

Lizzie Chen: And so,[00:28:00] so that's been like just, you know, just really great for me to like have their trust to, to be able to like, you know, be creative. Cause sometimes when you're handcuffed, you know, Some of that creativity It's harder, you know, to, to get out. Right. And, or you may not have, you know, you're, you, you have to go through so many rounds of approvals that by the time your social media copy, it's completely different than like, Yeah.

Lizzie Chen: Like how originally you know, or even like, as far as like jumping on trends, like. By the time something is approved, you know, that trend has already long gone. Yeah. Yes. Right.

John Azoni: The chain of approvals is just the killer of creativity. Yes,

Lizzie Chen: there really is. So, so I've just been lucky. Like, and for me, like, you know, what I do is like.

Lizzie Chen: I'll meet with Kathleen and you know, with our dean to find out what their goals are, you know, at the college level and [00:29:00] how can I be strategic with our social media to meet those goals and and really building like the moody brand, you know, Using it to attract like perspective students, you know, faculty and staff and and I just think, you know, just using as a tool to like tell great stories and to cultivate that community.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah, I think great. And also, yeah, go ahead.

John Azoni: I was just going to, I was just going to piggyback off that. Just like the, the idea of like you can squash. Your creative team's creativity very quickly and very easily by telling them what to do and making them go through a bunch of approvals and just, just, you can extinguish that flame really quickly to their, to where then they don't want to even try, you know, if it's too, if it's too boxed in, they're like, why bother?

John Azoni: We're just, I'm just creating,

Lizzie Chen: why even try? Yeah, they'll just end up, you know, creating like a whole bunch of like graphics with lots of text and no one's gonna look at it on social

John Azoni: media. Yeah, there's [00:30:00] nothing worse than creating something that you know. No one's going to care about it's just like sucks the life out of you.

John Azoni: And I think that like, there's I had a, uh, guest on here that talked about, you know, creating content that, that should, you know, your content should make some people rub them a little wrong way, or it doesn't have, I don't agree with like the people that say like. If your content doesn't piss somebody off, you're doing it wrong.

John Azoni: I don't think you should necessarily have to ride that line. I don't think we should be so, inflammatory or whatever, but, uh, but I do think that like the, the downfall of the approvals and things like that is that. We water a piece of content down to be so appeasable to everybody that it's appease, it appeals to nobody and it's just lifeless.

John Azoni: And so I think it is important, you know, for leadership, I say this as a, as a creator that. You know, has worked under leadership before, but to define like the, define the, the guardrails, you [00:31:00] know, of like the values and stuff and, and really just let people play in that, uh, you know, let your team play within those, within those guardrails and just kind of on a, on a, on a, uh, macro level, make, making sure that the team is staying on track.

Lizzie Chen: Oh, yes. I, and, and that's something that's so great about, or like our Dean and Kathleen is, you know, like. at the very beginning, you know, they, you know, you know, we came up with like, uh, like, you know, guidelines, you know, for social media and like, you know, and, and just making sure we're on brand and so, it's, uh, yeah, I think when that happens, like your creative juices like flow more and you're not you're able to like, you know, take Those ideas and like trends and like really like maximize that out and also like, you know, I mentioned like communication is also important like like open communication Transparency, I think like sometimes in the world of [00:32:00] communications, you know We're not the best at like communicating to each other but like at you know moody like that's you know, something that like Kathleen and I have with each other.

Lizzie Chen: It's like trust and like open communication. So like, even when like a campaign is not working, I'm able to take like those metrics or hard numbers to her and show her like, you know, is this worth our like budget and time and efforts. And we'll either like rethink dad or, you know, Think of a new strategy or either kill the the project.

Lizzie Chen: Right. Yeah. So that's why transparency and and trust have, have been so appreciated on my end. Cause cause it really makes like the job of a social media manager much easier, you know?

John Azoni: Yeah. When, when you, when you don't really feel like you own the thing that you're, that you're leading, then it's.

John Azoni: It's demotivating. So yeah, I, I, I found you to have to come on this podcast because of Kathleen, [00:33:00] Kathleen Mabley. Uh, she's a CMO, right? At, at, at Moody. Yes. She posted something, some glowing LinkedIn posts and tagged you. And I looked and I'm like, Oh, this Lizzie looks really interesting. We'd love to have her on the show.

John Azoni: And it was just like, she. Just, just, just having, like, she had just this glowing trust and, and, and appreciation for you. And even when I've spoken to her on the phone, she just speaks her praises so highly. And I just imagined working for someone like that is just such a breath of fresh air. Oh, it really

Lizzie Chen: is.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah, it really is a breath of fresh air. And I like, don't take any of it for granted. And so.

John Azoni: Cool. Okay. So we talked about, uh, communication and trust from upper management. And tell me now about collaboration. That's the fourth C in our sequence here.

Lizzie Chen: I liked a sequence. Yeah. Well, yeah, that was like for me, like.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah, [00:34:00] collaboration is so important, like, on so many different levels. Like, I mean, first of all, I have to give so many credit for, like, other people for our great social media. Like, to former interns, you know, current interns, our social media coordinator, even our graphic design who will help with, like, graphics.

Lizzie Chen: But mainly our students. Like, we can't. Do our jobs with our students and and for and really like I'm just using social media as a vehicle for our students to tell their own stories to really help amplify. Their voices or our faculties research or maybe like a, an alumni small business. And so for me, it's, you know, collaborating and getting students involved.

Lizzie Chen: Oftentimes like I'll allow the students to create their own content which actually saves me a lot of time. You know, creating less content with limited resources. For example, like during the pandemic, I invite us students to write handwritten notes about [00:35:00] graduating during a pandemic, right?

Lizzie Chen: And our community loved those notes so much, like, especially in this like digital age and time that we live in we spend so much time online. And that evolved to be this annual kind of like rite of passage at Moody College. So like, every year now we invite graduates to reflect on their time at Moody through a, a handwritten note.

Lizzie Chen: So we'll, you know, share their photo and also their handwritten note. And, you know, because we're the College of Communication you know, a lot of our graduates, they get really into these notes, like, you know, we get so many requests every year that we can't feature everyone unfortunately, and but, you know, some of our, a lot of our graduates, they'll be really creative, they'll like water paints, or they'll do calligraphy, they'll even use, like, their art directing skills that they learned at Moody to You know, create a beautiful photograph or set up their, their letter and just like beautiful frame.

Lizzie Chen: And so, so that's one thing, [00:36:00] like, you know, like, you know, One example of how we do collaboration at Moody College or even like when we used to do a lot more takeovers, but now we just have students create like a date in life real and letting them have control of their own story. And, you know, again, like half of our content strategy is driven by like content that will help meet the goals of the college, but also the other half is really driven by students and just giving them a chance to participate.

Lizzie Chen: And a lot of our reels are features and and just having, letting them like tell their stories themself is part one thing I love about collaborating.

John Azoni: Yeah. And, and speaking of, you know, the, the angle of limited resources what, how do you, you know, I feel like user getting students to collaborate.

John Azoni: Uh, with the marketing team is like the holy grail of, uh, social media situations. Cause the user generated content is, it performs super well especially if you can get that [00:37:00] student to post it on their platform to their audience. But like, tell me, tell me some ways in which you invite students into the content creation process that kind of saves you guys time and, and budget and stuff like that.

John Azoni: Yeah.

Lizzie Chen: So yeah, several ways. But one, one main thing is like, for example, we have a series called Life After Moody where we feature recent graduates of Moody College women the last five years, cause we heard from students that they want to see you know, it's great to see like, you know, like graduates who are successful, but you know, it's always like, You know, they're like CEO or they're a famous actor, but like they want to see where they can be in the next five years You know, in the end, like they all just want jobs, right?

Lizzie Chen: And so that's why we started featuring younger alumni and and part of that is, you know, Like all of the photos like I used to go out and take off those photos myself Like [00:38:00] I'll be like, hey, can I stop by your work? Can I? You know, take all these, you know, take your portrait, but now I just have to send in all those photos themselves, you know, like, you know, I didn't have any, like, user generated content, it's so much more, like, authentic and appealing to our audiences than, like, me going out and taking those photos.

Lizzie Chen: For sure. And they perform better and and also when they're sharing it to their stories, like that's how we get a lot more reach and engagement and for example, another example is like a date on life reel. Like I used to be the one who'll like go out and like film all of that content and like edit that together.

Lizzie Chen: But now I'm like, I'll just let the student like create their own reel themselves. And that saves me a lot of time and, and and. And they're able to, like, tell their own story in their own way and also use their, their own, you know, creativity, and so that's another, another way that I save time [00:39:00] with, like, Korean content.

John Azoni: Yeah, that's great. And, and, uh, you mentioned pictures and I think that that's not to be like understated. Like it's, it's much easier to get pictures from people, uh, than to get to the teach them how to create the right kind of, right kind of video that you want. But like pictures perform very well.

John Azoni: Like we talk a lot, we talk a lot about video on this podcast, but I'm actually a big fan of still images. Cause honestly, some of that, some of my best performing stuff, like on LinkedIn, it's just behind the scenes, pictures on a shoot. Just like. Nothing, nothing special, but

Lizzie Chen: just like, Yeah. Cause like, you know, like, you know, everyone they're talking about like reels and tech talks, like in how they perform so well. And we do have like some, some are real as they do perform well. But in the end, it's always like a carousel of like, iPhone pics that performed at best, you know, and you know, just still images like people, they want to scroll, they still will scroll through and look at [00:40:00] photos.

Lizzie Chen: And, and I'm always like thinking about algorithm, like I'm strategic and like how I post these photos and in any order we post them. Like for example, on Instagram, like how the algorithm is like. It's the second photo that will show up in your feed. So not the first one. So, so that's something a lot of people don't know, but I didn't know that photo that would show up.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah. So I'm always thinking like, okay, the first one, the first photo in my carousel can be great, but I want my second photo to be amazing. Uh, that's going to be the one that will like show up in people's feed. And so, so just like thinking strategically and also like in a carousel, like. Okay, like kind of telling a story and like, there was 10 photos that they send us.

Lizzie Chen: But again, like it's, you know, yeah, still images, they, they still perform well. I know people love videos but some of our top posts are always like, you know, a, a, a spotlight on either an alum or students [00:41:00] featuring still images.

John Azoni: That's awesome. Yeah, the carousels, carousels are very, are very powerful.

John Azoni: And then yeah, it's much easier to get a student to like take, to just take some selfies of themselves throughout the day. You know, then video can be difficult. You get into, you get into, now you gotta, now you gotta get into editing the video. Uh, you know, and that's like a whole nother, yeah, that's, that's a whole nother ballgame.

John Azoni: But, but yeah, so okay collaboration and then okay, here's but I want to back up a little bit And I should probably ask you this at the beginning of so but can you tell me about the layout of your team? And I know you mentioned like you always wish you could have like ten more people but I'm curious to know like How many hands on deck do you have working on this stuff and then how can we apply that to These things that we're talking about to a team that maybe is a team of one, you know That's like the social media manager and the content creator or something like that.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah, so for the longest time [00:42:00] for for about like four years It was just a team of one. So it was just me, a social media manager creating everything. And sometimes I'll have like an intern or two to help. But just recently, uh, I was able to hire on another full time staff on the social team.

Lizzie Chen: So now I've got Leticia, who will also help me with a lofty, like. Content creation photography, videography, illustrations but yeah, before before having her and even before having interns, like, you know, what does this mean by myself? You know, you kind of have to be like a, you know, jack of all trades, like, you know, no videography, photography, graphic design, you know, copy You know, strategy.

Lizzie Chen: And so, really my, my secret to like running a successful like social media account is like to stay extremely organized and, and planning in advance. But do you want to know more about like the Moody Morcom team at Moody [00:43:00] College? So like we've got Kathleen Mabley, who's our chief marketing officer.

Lizzie Chen: And then we also have a content coordinator, a graphic designer. A marketing manager and marketing coordinator and a web developer and there's me and also our social media digital content coordinator.

John Azoni: And then the platforms that you guys are active on, like where do you prioritize?

Lizzie Chen: Oh, so for social media, we definitely prioritize Instagram because that's that's where most of our audience And and Instagram and LinkedIn are, are two of the fastest growing platforms.

Lizzie Chen: You know, Twitter X, you know, has been, you know, kind of murky lately.

John Azoni: I've never had anyone on the show that had anything good to say about X. And

Lizzie Chen: and, and, you know, Facebook is is, it's kind of like I tell people, like, uh, my, my step kids or something because it's, you know, it's one of those platforms where we still post They're often, but it's not growing.

Lizzie Chen: [00:44:00] Like yeah, like we are on LinkedIn or Instagram, but we definitely do prioritize like Instagram and and

John Azoni: LinkedIn. And LinkedIn for, for undergrads or is that for adult, like adult learners? So

Lizzie Chen: surprisingly, like a lot of our students are on LinkedIn because like, soon as they left to go on LinkedIn to, to, you know, announce their new internship or.

Lizzie Chen: And now it's like, Hey, I just got this fellowship or just scholarship. And so, that's really a great way. Uh, so like, yeah, like LinkedIn is one of our fastest growing platforms because of our current students, but also because of like once our students graduate, you know, these young alumni, they, they use it often.

Lizzie Chen: You know, so, so yeah, we, we do prioritize, you know, like community building on these two platforms. Interesting.

John Azoni: Okay, good to know. All right. And you mentioned organization, which is the last C here, consistency and staying organized. So I as a content creator myself, uh, consistency is a [00:45:00] huge, it it's, it's been a, it's in the past been a big stressor for me.

John Azoni: Uh, and I know it's a stressor for most marketers that I talked to. But then also just like, like I've found, I've found getting organized to be, One of the biggest alleviators of, of that stress and then just taking time to batch content, you might have a completely different, I'm just, I'm just spitballing, like what comes,

Lizzie Chen: you know, I do a lot of batching content.

Lizzie Chen: So like, yeah, like I also feel like my secret is like just staying organized and planning well in advance. Like, I think I'm one of those like rare, like content creators who also happened to be like. Type a personality, like I'm very like like detour into like, Oh man,

John Azoni: that's a powerhouse right there.

John Azoni: Yeah. The detailed creative.

Lizzie Chen: Yeah. And so, really like without a content calendar, like I, you know, like to, I, like I do a lot of training at Moody college, [00:46:00] like other social media managers. And so like, I always tell them like the content calendar is almost like my Bible because like You know, without your content calendar, you'll be left like scrambling every day coming, trying to come up with content or even worse, like you want them to have content, right?

Lizzie Chen: And you're just like a ghost account on social media and, and that's what you don't want to be. And so, at Moody, I like try and train and offer guidance for some of our social media managers who. Who have very limited resources. I mean social media is like a small tiny part of their jobs Right, so and they don't have bandwidth or resources so I always tell them like if you have that content calendar and if you spend just a few hours like a day like, you know batching some of that content creating a lot of that content for at least like two weeks, you know, It'll make your life so much easier.

Lizzie Chen: So for example at the Moody College level, like, you know, one of my tricks is I'll spend, [00:47:00] uh, a week or two before the semester starts, and I'm already like planning and already gathering all of that content for the entire semester for our plan series. So like, You know, we have I think, Why After Moody, Why Moody, Life After Moody, Moody Spotlights, and Inside a Room, like, that's, you know, four, like, consistent planned series that we have, and that's already all planned through December and so that at least we, we have, So when you already have planned content, you're able to kind of take those like fires that, that come at you or request that comes at you and, and, and work through those without like being stressed or without worrying, okay, do we have other content?

Lizzie Chen: And so, so yeah, that's, you know, one of my trick is to just stay very organized and like use your content calendar, like, You know, a lot of people don't start a content calendar, but then they'll like quickly fall off it. Yes, you [00:48:00] know Try and like stay To use that content calendar and like stick to it

John Azoni: Yes, that's that's a that's a hard discipline.

John Azoni: I mean, I I got I'm more organized these days but I also it's I always laugh every time I go into my Google Drive because it's like content ideas Underscore one. And then it's got like a dump of ideas on it. And then I've got like content ideas, 2021 or something like that. I was like, I have like these, these like say the same document that I've tried to implement like multiple times.

John Azoni: And I start from scratch every time. But that, but yeah, getting, getting on a, uh, get just defining what your rhythm is going to be is I think is so important and to like one tip that I, that I will share for people that aren't real. Uh, calendar focused or don't want to think too far ahead. What I do with this podcast is use like this is my main content engine.

John Azoni: So I'll clip up, uh, [00:49:00] snippets from this episode. I just load them into social pilot and I have, uh, and I, and I have, you know, they're, they're all vertical so that they just kind of fit in all the, all the platforms. And I just have to click like. Send this to TikTok shorts, uh, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram.

John Azoni: And then I have just a template pretty much for like each post from that episode. So I'll, I'll create the new template. That's like, check out, you know, my episode with Lizzie Chen, where we talk about this and here's some key points. And then the only thing I'm changing with that is the hook. So it might just be like, you're.

John Azoni: you know, it might, the hook might just be like you, you you, in order to be successful with social media, you have to be consistent, uh, and, and boom. And then, and then send that to six different platforms and just let it, you just fill the queue and it just on social pilot, it'll just, AI will just kind of like drip stuff out, which is nice.

John Azoni: Cause like, so I don't, I personally don't. [00:50:00] Manage any sort of calendar. It's just kind of like, it's just kind of like, I, my, my podcast content is kind of on autopilot. And then anything else I want to jump in there and post on LinkedIn or wherever else is icing on the cake. But that's, that's one way just to like, if you batch content and just queue it, queue it all up, just let, let a program drip, you know, drip it out.

John Azoni: If that's the simplest way to do it. And the other thing, the other time saving thing, I was just thinking in terms of. You know, social media managers are of, of, uh, one or with little help. AI has been huge for me. To where I can take a podcast episode like yesterday. Uh, I recorded, uh, the episode that will have come out already with, with, uh, Shane Bagi.

John Azoni: And I took the transcript from that episode, ran it through Claude, it's claude.ai, and I told it, write me the show notes. Include like relevant links and then give me five LinkedIn posts with time codes. So my editor can just go right [00:51:00] to those spots and then also write me hooks to go with each of these, each of these time codes.

John Azoni: And it's like, and I swear I got hours of work done in 10 minutes. Wow. Okay.

Lizzie Chen: So I have to know that like AI kind of scares me. So I have not touched AI and also like, especially it was like a. creative, like, you know, like with like how to like manipulating like people's photos and like videos like that.

Lizzie Chen: Like for me, it's more of like an ethical, like, reason to why I'm not using AI, but I agree. Am I using a

John Azoni: feature? I saw, I heard, I was driving my kids to school, uh, today and, uh, there was an, uh, on some radio program, they played a song that was an AI version of it had, they took Drake's voice and someone else's voice, I don't know.

John Azoni: Uh, and they made like this whole hip hop song and it's like in the running for a Grammy. And so it's like this thing where it's like, where, where are we drawing the line? So [00:52:00] I'm totally. Where are we

Lizzie Chen: drawing? Yeah. Especially for creatives. Like, you know, as artists. I mean, I've seen it. Like. Ethically, like how, you know, you know, are we giving credit to people?

Lizzie Chen: Are we like paying them? Yeah, that's one thing that scares me.

John Azoni: I definitely think there's a, there's a lot to be like concerned about with, with AI. And for me, like where I get the most use out of it is just in like administrative assistance with, it's like, this is stuff that I would. Do myself anyways, I like, I would go through and I would find the individual time codes and I would, you know, tell my editor what to pull out and then I would write the social media posts and, and blah, blah, blah.

John Azoni: And it's just kind of like, it's almost just like hiring an intern to do those things to do

Lizzie Chen: that. Yeah. Yeah. And then you mentioned earlier, like writing like specific hook for every platform that brought up like in our point, I, Try and tell people it's like I need a lot of social media managers They make the mistake of like treating all platforms as if they're the same like don't you know upload or copy to Hootsuite and like Oh, I'll [00:53:00] publish like it's the same copy for everything and, and even like, a lot of people like so I try and like have different copy for everything.

Lizzie Chen: And even like Instagram, like, you know, we've got stories and, you know, reels and now threads and, and feed content. Like I treat all four of that like. Yeah. There were four different platforms, even though it's all Instagram but cause you know, it's, it's different ways of how people consume content.

Lizzie Chen: And so like, for sure, having a strategy for each of that is so important to me. Yeah,

John Azoni: you, you're definitely gonna, like, the thing I like about social pilot is you, you tell it what platforms you're going to post to, but then you still have to manually go through and go, okay, for LinkedIn, here's, here's what I want my posts to be.

John Azoni: Here's my hashtags. I'm gonna tag this person. Uh, but Facebook, okay. Tags work differently on Facebook. So here's how we're going to do this and, uh, blah, blah, blah. So you still have to tell it like each, each thing to do, but like, you know, for instance, like you can't be like Like on LinkedIn, I [00:54:00] can be like, uh, you know, link.

John Azoni: Uh, link below or like, or link in the comments or something like that. But TikTok, if I just let it send that to TikTok, there's no link in the comments. You know, you do have to pay attention. But I agree with you. Like, yeah. Uh, optimizing for each, for each, uh, social platform is really important. Cause the way that people interact on, on LinkedIn and the things that they kind of, that stop the scroll for them is different than, than say Instagram or, or, you know, TikTok or whatever.

Lizzie Chen: I'll have you check out. Social pilot. Do do you think it's better than Hootsuite?

John Azoni: Uh, Hootsuite hoo. So Hootsuite is, uh, I've never used it, only 'cause it's so gosh, darn expensive. Okay. For, you know, someone of, of my business, uh, uh, cash flow . So , uh, so social pilot I think is like 30 bucks. But Hootsuite, I know, does a, does a bunch of stuff, uh, just, but SocialPilot is just, I've, I've used over the last year several, uh, like [00:55:00] Buffer, I've used, uh, Canva even has their own scheduling feature now I've used several others and I've just landed on SocialPilot because it's, it's just been what's fit into my groove the best with like wanting to be on multiple platforms and also wanting to save time.

John Azoni: Real quick. Just tell me uh, thanks for coming on the show. Tell me where people can find you at.

Lizzie Chen: Oh, so for, yeah, follow us at Texas Moody on Instagram or you Texas Moody at Twitter. Uh, and and for me, I'm Lizzy Chin on, on Instagram.

John Azoni: We'll put that stuff in the show notes. Thank you so much for being on the show, Lizzie. Really appreciate it.

Lizzie Chen: Oh yeah. Thank you so much. It was nice chatting with you.