Higher Ed Storytelling University

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:33:22
John Azoni
My guest today is Nate Jorgensen. Nate is the senior director of academic marketing and communications at Miami University in Ohio. In this role, he leads the integration of the academic divisions into the central marketing and communication team with a focus on recruitment, marketing and storytelling through podcasts and other mediums. Prior to Miami, Nate served for five years as the director of Marketing for the College of Engineering at University of Cincinnati, and he has 20 years of marketing and communications experience with 15 years in higher education.

00:00:33:22 - 00:00:58:12
John Azoni
And today we're going to talk about a couple of things. We're going to talk about the podcast that Miami University has, which is really, really unique cool idea. And we're going to talk about the need for Miami University to have a more centralized marketing presence. And and the steps that Nate is is taking to help the school get there.

00:00:58:18 - 00:01:01:17
John Azoni
So, Nate, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.

00:01:02:10 - 00:01:04:01
Nate Jorgensen
Thanks for having me. John. Excited.

00:01:05:01 - 00:01:11:15
John Azoni
So we'd like to start off by asking you a personal question. What is something that people would be surprised to know about you?

00:01:12:09 - 00:01:22:12
Nate Jorgensen
One I've used before and that people tend to be surprised as that I have had sudden broken bones and 40 plus stitches in my life.

00:01:22:23 - 00:01:28:19
John Azoni
Wow. And there must be at least one story there.

00:01:28:19 - 00:01:54:14
Nate Jorgensen
Let's see. They're just kind of I played high school football, so that accounts for three, three of those. And one was an arm break when I was little. And then a couple of them were just like, recently I've just been like getting old. Like I climbed over some things in the attic and broke ribs doing it. So it's heading downhill fast.

00:01:55:22 - 00:02:11:21
John Azoni
Well, there's always the hazard, like when you start having kids of like the baby gate, you know, trying to hop over the baby gate. We had we had one that was kind of difficult to open. And in our previous house and my wife and I still to this day have no idea why we had it set up this way.

00:02:11:21 - 00:02:33:18
John Azoni
But the baby was upstairs in our the master bedroom was downstairs. And we just let that happen. We were like, why did the why did we let the baby sleep on the other side of the house on a different floor? But like any, we would hear her crying through the monitor. And then I'd like run through the house, run to the downstairs in the dark and like, trip over the baby gate, like every other time.

00:02:34:13 - 00:02:36:04
John Azoni
Go get the baby. But yeah.

00:02:36:12 - 00:02:46:08
Nate Jorgensen
There's probably been more ACLs blown and like shoulders separated by baby gates than than blitzing linebackers. Oh, my.

00:02:46:08 - 00:03:10:21
John Azoni
Gosh. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Well, so, you know, in preparing for this episode and listening to the podcast that we're going to talk about, it actually reminded me, like I've had this idea for the last year or so since just start, you know, having this podcast myself about storytelling and working with schools to, you know, encourage them with storytelling.

00:03:10:21 - 00:03:32:11
John Azoni
I've always thought it would be a really great idea to have a podcast that's just very raw conversations with students, talking about their majors and talking about their struggles and things like that. And here you come and you're like, Bro, we've been doing this. You're really you're late to the game. So. So tell us about the Major Insight podcast.

00:03:32:21 - 00:04:06:09
Nate Jorgensen
Right? Yeah, thanks. And it wasn't my idea and it was something that I noticed in the same way that you did. Later on. I was interviewing for my job about a year and a half ago, and I was doing all the research I could on Miami University and came across the podcast. It's called Major Insight, and kind of it started out to kind of help students find their major, and it's evolved into helping them find their major, their way, their, their, their life at college.

00:04:07:00 - 00:04:35:22
Nate Jorgensen
And in my researching for my interview, I just noticed this this podcast is great. And there was I probably spent 50% of my interview just talking about the podcast, and it wasn't that big of a focus, if at all, at the university. When I got there, it was something that one college was doing. The College of Education had had put it together and it was really just focusing on their students with with a couple exceptions.

00:04:36:08 - 00:05:04:03
Nate Jorgensen
And since that time we've moved it into our central office where it's a project that we work on and, and kind of take care of in every way and have a budget for and and so now it focuses across the board and it's really seemed to hit you know, it hit on target with that. What are you going to go through when you're a student?

00:05:04:03 - 00:05:35:23
Nate Jorgensen
You're going to be homesick and don't feel like you're the only one feeling homesick and you're going to feel like you're behind in your classes. Sometimes. Cause if you're if you're challenging yourself and how so many people feel that way and what the podcast usually ends up being is it's usually a third or fourth year student who is who is successful, obviously, who who then talks about like, here's where I started and here's where I came from and this is how I was feeling.

00:05:36:08 - 00:05:55:23
Nate Jorgensen
And then they give advice to their first year selves, the advice they wish they would have received. And that's exactly what that has been valuable for, is newer students getting that advice early and just seeing that they're not they're not alone in those feelings.

00:05:56:19 - 00:06:23:02
John Azoni
Yeah, it's a really cool concept. I listened to a couple episodes. One was a girl that was injured. You and I talked maybe like a month ago, so I heard. So it's a little fuzzy when I when I listen to it. But from listening to it a few weeks ago. But it was like one she she was like an athlete and she got injured and that just like redirected her her path in college.

00:06:23:02 - 00:06:58:03
Nate Jorgensen
That's totally right. And I think that's the perfect illustration where, you know, she I think she was like, oh, am I going to be am I going to be a soccer player in college and, you know, take on all that that entails? And then she just had injury after injury to hurt her knee that really derailed that. But she spent so much time in physical therapy and high school that in the hours spent doing that in excruciating pain, she started saying like, well, to her therapist, you know, what are you doing?

00:06:58:03 - 00:07:35:15
Nate Jorgensen
Why are you doing it? And then you got more into like, well, how did you get into this? And and now she's in athletic training and really in a good spot in that, you know, the way that that career can progress. She works for the football team here and she kind of made a good joke and the episode where she said I've traveled everywhere from the Bahamas to Akron, Ohio, and that that's kind of like how how college athletic goes and but yeah, it just is having a great experience in the way she talks about it.

00:07:35:15 - 00:07:53:04
Nate Jorgensen
And I think it certainly would have helped me you know coming out of high school being like you're your plans are going to change about three times or something's going to change about them and just be ready to roll with that. Don't be thinking that you're going to have it all figured out right away.

00:07:54:00 - 00:08:13:07
John Azoni
For sure. It's I feel like it's pretty rare that like someone coming out of high school knows what they want to go into, goes into studies that thing and then becomes that thing. And, you know, 50 years later, they're like, it was just a straight path. You know, most people I talked to are like they they bounce around a little bit and until they kind of find their way.

00:08:13:07 - 00:08:36:17
John Azoni
And that's that's what I really like about the podcast is just shows like the just kind of the honest, you know, nature of college and setbacks and, you know, new things that wouldn't have come were it not for those setbacks. And I like how she talks in that episode about about, yeah, working for the football team, traveling a lot and she's like, I'll be in class, you know, all week.

00:08:36:17 - 00:08:41:08
John Azoni
And then and then the next thing I know I'm like in the Bahamas or something like that, you know, with the.

00:08:41:10 - 00:09:00:05
Nate Jorgensen
Yeah, like she's like two separate people because, you know, the next that, that Saturday you're in Paul Brown Stadium for for a game and then on Monday you're back in class and right on the first floor of Albom Hall and that that is an interesting experience.

00:09:00:05 - 00:09:31:01
John Azoni
Yeah And the other one I checked out was the mental health. There was a recent maybe is like four episodes ago about mental health and it was a roundtable with three or four students and then the host kind of, you know, peppering questions about different mental health journeys that these folks have been on. And I just thought that that was such a cool episode and just a just such a meaningful topic, because I really I mean, I think mental health is becoming less and less stigmatized.

00:09:31:01 - 00:10:05:01
John Azoni
And I think there's probably there's probably a realization of high school students that they're going to be home sick and stuff like that. But I don't think I just know for me, like I struggled with with, you know, some depression my first semester in college and actually after you and I had our pre chat that jogged my memory about this and I wrote about this in my my newsletter about how, you know, I went to the Maryland Institute College of Art and only only lasted one semester there because I was just struggling, you know, And I was so I was so homesick and other thing, other factors were going on at home that were that

00:10:05:01 - 00:10:27:17
John Azoni
were not helping. But I, I ended I ended up leaving the college and moving back home. And I always to this day, I'm like, what would it have looked like if I had just like, stuck through it more, you know, because I liked that school significantly more than where I ended up, like in terms of being challenged and stuff like that.

00:10:27:17 - 00:10:39:22
John Azoni
So I think it's really it's a really timely sort of topic to have students that are just going through the same thing and realizing challenges in their college careers that they didn't expect to have.

00:10:40:17 - 00:11:04:19
Nate Jorgensen
That is so true. And I too, I've dealt with depression and anxiety my entire life, so I kind of just like piques my attention whenever I hear someone talking in a real way about it. And I had somewhat of a similar experience where I started out college, you know, wanting to go into engineering, as many people do and many people don't succeed in.

00:11:05:07 - 00:11:29:19
Nate Jorgensen
And and it really was it was it was I was failing in chemistry and was just freaking out about it. And I had never seen grades like that before. And then you kind of learn the game, especially when you end up working in higher ed later, like, oh, that's, you know, you, you hope to scrape by and get a C in those classes.

00:11:30:03 - 00:12:01:01
Nate Jorgensen
For the most part. I know there's exceptions where it's like, you need to, you need to ace that class. But it wasn't completely unusual and I bailed on that and in the same way. And, and that's something that motivates me in my work, I guess is is trying to help that that next me who is is nervous about whatever that thing may be and if there are tools out there to help they should know what they are.

00:12:01:11 - 00:12:25:17
Nate Jorgensen
And if there are people who have experienced that, they should hear what their stories were to see if they can help. And I have to give credit just clearly, James Loy, who works on our office, he's just an absolute genius when it comes to podcasting. And he's been doing it at Miami for maybe a little less than ten years now.

00:12:26:05 - 00:12:46:11
Nate Jorgensen
And so he's put all of this together and he's kind of seen all of these lines, that storylines that that could be told. And so I'm as surprised as anyone when he sends me the draft of the first version of a podcast I was just listening to. And I'm just like, this is this might be the best one I've ever heard.

00:12:46:11 - 00:12:50:10
Nate Jorgensen
This one might be. Yeah, that's right. So it's just great.

00:12:50:19 - 00:13:12:18
John Azoni
What's been the what's been the output from the podcast? Like what's been some results that you've seen maybe in if there's enrollment results or if it's retention results or if it's just people that are like finding a lot of help from this. Just anecdotal, you know, comments, What have you been hearing?

00:13:14:07 - 00:13:44:13
Nate Jorgensen
It's been a lot of anecdotal so far. I just have on my screen right now, I the the Office of Student Life, just their students made a fan video about the podcast because they love it so much. So there's like students on campus who just love listening to it, love connecting with people who have been on it and just hear more about people who they might kind of know and maybe organizations they might kind of know.

00:13:44:23 - 00:14:09:18
Nate Jorgensen
And then we do hear a lot of the anecdotal stuff. And now right now, for the first time, you know, I would say I've been pressing for this in my position for, you know, maybe a little over a year now to really get this going on a larger scale. I've always thought and I know that James has thought in his work with that this can be a podcast that can help anyone.

00:14:10:07 - 00:14:33:09
Nate Jorgensen
These don't have to be Miami intending students to benefit from the conversations. The conversations really don't have anything to do with Miami. They always end up talking about Miami, of course, and that's obviously great for us and Miami is a great school, so they end up hearing a lot of good things. But that's where we want to take it.

00:14:33:09 - 00:15:00:15
Nate Jorgensen
And we're just starting some very preliminary advertising now. And prior to that, we've we've kind of covered everything that we can on campus and in the recruiting cycle. We're ramping that up just a little bit more. But we're you know, we we get the cards to put in the bags of students who visit campus that talk about the podcast and say that they can check it out.

00:15:00:15 - 00:15:27:02
Nate Jorgensen
I know that's kind of hit or miss, but it's what the opportunity we were given and we have posters up around campus and send some emails to prospects and admitted students about the podcast. And those have gotten pretty good attention and grown some. But it really, you know, I, I'm just a huge advocate for it so I think it should be bigger and I think that all the time.

00:15:27:02 - 00:15:31:15
Nate Jorgensen
And so hopefully we'll we'll get to a point where that's happening more and more.

00:15:32:10 - 00:15:54:22
John Azoni
Yeah, great. Like top of funnel content strategy, I think, you know where I don't think as many people would listen to it or probably even talk about it if it was every episode a different with a different student of why they should, why they like my University of Miami, you know, and Exactly.

00:15:55:01 - 00:15:55:05
Nate Jorgensen
Yeah.

00:15:55:06 - 00:16:21:08
John Azoni
And that might be that might be the the temptation from leadership is to say, well, if we're going to invest money in this, this isn't for us to help all college students everywhere. This is for us to bring students to our campus. And that's a really that's really the point of view. I think that is the thread across my entire podcast is like what would like meaningful content?

00:16:21:08 - 00:16:36:20
John Azoni
Kind of looks like kind of looks sometimes, not always, but sometimes looks like what would a message be or a story be? What would it sound like if I wasn't allowed to mention the brand, you know?

00:16:37:06 - 00:16:38:04
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

00:16:38:13 - 00:17:14:08
John Azoni
And how you removed that stipulation. Now you can now you can just talk about things that are going to draw people in and keep them engaged. And now it's it's hosted by the brand, but it's not a commercial for the brand. And that's why I think it's it's so it's it's good you know, for not only University of Miami you know students but I, I agree with you I see that that could be like a like a bigger thing like this is this is just a coming of age, whatever, you know, podcast if you are if you are kind of at this point in life wondering these things, you know.

00:17:14:22 - 00:17:39:01
Nate Jorgensen
That's 100% right. And I think we've all had those ideas that we've come up with and gone to, to get the funding for, for it or whatever. And then it's like, Oh, well, of course we're going to be mentioning this program and for people to apply every 30 seconds and it's like, no one's listening then like no one has any reason to listen to it than because they don't want a commercial for Miami.

00:17:39:01 - 00:18:16:14
Nate Jorgensen
They they want something that's going to help them. And I think there's just something bigger happening. And in marketing, it's I mean, I'm not saying anything new. It's been happening for a long time, but just that genuine content that can happen. And sometimes it's just kind of giving it a place like this podcast to happen. And of course, I think every episode is great because, you know, I just really like the people who do it, but it's going to be something where someone goes, Wow, that that person said exactly what I was thinking, but I'm too afraid to say.

00:18:17:00 - 00:18:43:13
Nate Jorgensen
And that's going to spread farther than anything that you're just blatantly marketing yourself with. And that's a big thing for us right now. You know, we're Miami University, we're in the middle of Ohio. No one understands anything about any of that. If they hadn't heard of the place. And so we're we're fighting some battles right off the bat.

00:18:43:22 - 00:19:09:06
Nate Jorgensen
And so, like, they just don't have an a media association with them. But if we can become a source, we do undergraduate education really well. It's something that we we focus on more than a lot of the institutions in our area who do a lot of other things very, very well. And and maybe we can become kind of a source, a source for helpful information in that way.

00:19:09:15 - 00:19:35:18
Nate Jorgensen
And and then, of course, what's going to happen is you're going to end up getting more traffic. You're going to end up you know, someone's going to listen to it. Check out that program and think, oh, well, they said they had a good time and it was a genuine story. So all that stuff happens. But I just don't you have no chance if you're just plain marketing of I guess you at least give yourself a chance that you're doing something genuine.

00:19:36:06 - 00:19:46:09
John Azoni
Right? For sure. Side note for people wondering, and I'm one of these people, why is there Miami University in Ohio.

00:19:47:01 - 00:20:16:04
Nate Jorgensen
The great great question thanks for you guys. People usually don't ask. So Miami Miami University existed before the state of Florida existed. Miami University was founded in 1809. And so that's one of the sayings around campus, is that we were a university when when Florida still was owned by Spain. And I we in this area live in the Miami Valley.

00:20:16:05 - 00:20:44:09
Nate Jorgensen
There's a miami River, there's a little Miami River, and that goes all the way back to indigenous people. And we have a strong relationship with the the people who were in this area that started up a couple decades ago and has really gotten stronger and stronger. So and I've heard differing opinions on like how the names ended up the same because there's there's Dayton here.

00:20:44:09 - 00:20:53:16
Nate Jorgensen
Then there's also Daytona Beach and there's my Miami kind of the Miami area here and then obviously Miami and something.

00:20:53:16 - 00:20:54:06
John Azoni
You know.

00:20:54:21 - 00:20:57:10
Nate Jorgensen
But yeah yeah exactly. Yeah.

00:20:57:15 - 00:20:58:12
John Azoni
There's a connection there.

00:20:58:12 - 00:21:00:15
Speaker 3
But yeah, right. Yeah.

00:21:00:16 - 00:21:30:19
Nate Jorgensen
And so I've heard some stories saying that like, yeah, those were Ohio people going down and starting things down there and just calling on what they were familiar with. And I've heard other ones too, So I'm not sure exactly what the, the thing is. So but yeah, like the University of Miami in Florida I think was founded, I'll get emails about this if it's wrong but you know sometime in the early 1900s, maybe like the 1920s or something like that.

00:21:30:19 - 00:21:55:14
Nate Jorgensen
So Miami University obviously was around for like 110 years before, before all that. But then, of course, they they exploded. And in fame in a lot of ways with their athletic teams and everything like that. So it's an interesting problem to try to tackle as as a marketer, but it's kind of fun too.

00:21:56:09 - 00:22:20:19
John Azoni
Yeah, it is kind of interesting. I had Andy Fuller from Notre Dame on the podcast bunch episodes ago and he was talking about this idea of narrative ownership and these these these questions that people have about your school that become rumors or just folklore, you know, and the importance of like just setting them straight from the school's perspective.

00:22:20:19 - 00:22:28:15
John Azoni
So you heard it here first, or maybe this this is not the first time, but you heard some you've heard some narrative ownership here from Nate Jorgenson.

00:22:29:08 - 00:22:29:17
Speaker 3
Right?

00:22:29:17 - 00:22:31:11
Nate Jorgensen
Yes. Yes. Good start.

00:22:32:14 - 00:22:50:07
John Azoni
So I also want to say, backing up to the podcast, you're your host. I want to mention before we go forward to the the centralization stuff is really your host is really good. And I think she she does a really good job. And that's one person, right? That's one person hosting. It's not like a different host every episode.

00:22:50:19 - 00:23:23:09
Nate Jorgensen
No one person, Meredith, she is an undergrad from West Virginia and she is in an acapella group. If you listen long enough, you kind of know all these things. So she's a speech pathology major from from West Virginia and an a cappella group and is just someone who can perform very comfortably. She sought us out. James and I ended up getting involved because she had heard the podcast and said, Oh, I, I really like it.

00:23:23:09 - 00:23:28:08
Nate Jorgensen
And can I, can I try out for a and we're like, you're you're end because.

00:23:28:16 - 00:23:30:07
Speaker 3
We don't have anybody else.

00:23:30:07 - 00:23:32:03
Nate Jorgensen
Yes and a very.

00:23:32:03 - 00:23:33:00
John Azoni
Interesting.

00:23:33:16 - 00:24:09:22
Nate Jorgensen
Right Yeah. Yeah. Because our old host who is also phenomenal Jason and he is doing professional audio work now right now Meredith is going to graduate in April and we're like, kind of like crap. Like, that's not good for us. And so now when James just put out the call for some some applicants, we got like dozens of applicants from the theater department, from the communications department, from all of those different areas.

00:24:09:22 - 00:24:36:17
Nate Jorgensen
So now it's becoming something that's that's bigger than just kind of us throwing it together. And it is it's such a credit to her when you know this. Well, of course. But when when you hear the final product a couple of times I've sat in on the recording and I have been like, I don't know how they're going to get something out of that recording the person or the way to nervous, right?

00:24:36:17 - 00:24:57:00
Nate Jorgensen
And they had to start and stop way too many times, not through their fault, but just because of whatever and then because of what she does and how how James in this case puts it together. It ends up sounding like NPR, too, to me. Yeah. And it's just incredible. And and that's kind of, I guess, just the magic of that platform.

00:24:57:00 - 00:25:25:17
Nate Jorgensen
And I've done a podcast person from pretty early on, I would say like in 2009, and I started right when I got an iPhone. I started listening to podcasts. So I've been doing that just in my life. And so I've been familiar with that way of communicating and so then maybe had a bit of an ear for that when I started hearing those, when when I got here.

00:25:25:17 - 00:25:36:22
John Azoni
Yeah, that's, that was the thing I noticed almost immediately. It was this sounds like a real it sounds like a national podcast, you know, this is yeah, like NPR is exactly what I was thinking.

00:25:37:21 - 00:26:06:04
Nate Jorgensen
That's absolutely right. And James comes from a radio background as well. So that that was completely by chance. The director, the marketing director, Aaron, at the College of Education just kind of took a chance on him to do other things. But with that background and now, like it's now it's me taking a lot of credit, doing interviews for stuff that I had absolutely nothing to do with other than just recognizing that it's great.

00:26:06:04 - 00:26:12:00
Nate Jorgensen
And and yet I'm not going to take no for an answer. Why not when it comes to doing more with it?

00:26:12:10 - 00:26:35:00
John Azoni
Yeah. And it's a testament to how just the power of editing I remember in in my you just made me it made me think of some of the first videos I ever edited. I remember I had this. I was working for my buddy, my buddy, this previous production company, and we had this project where we had to get we did like crank out like 20 of these like personal testimonies for a church.

00:26:35:00 - 00:27:01:04
John Azoni
And so I got really good at like, at, like combing through an interview and like, cutting a compelling story together. But then we hit towards the end, we hit this, this one girl who was so nervous and I kid you not. She stopped like two or three times every sentence to like re recompose herself. And I was watching the raw footage, like, there is no way we're going to put anything together with this.

00:27:02:03 - 00:27:08:00
John Azoni
Ended up muscling it together and it and it was actually one of the best videos of the entire series.

00:27:08:20 - 00:27:09:04
Speaker 3
I can.

00:27:09:06 - 00:27:09:16
Nate Jorgensen
Believe.

00:27:09:17 - 00:27:30:07
John Azoni
It. It's just it's bizarre how that how that happens. But it really comes down to the editor, like the power of editing is like, you know, when when you can get someone that can work around those things and, you know, cut to different cameras and and have tricks and things to to work around those those pauses and stuff.

00:27:30:07 - 00:27:41:22
John Azoni
It makes a world of a difference that so many people that, you know, I filmed in the past that that thought they were going to do terrible in the final product. And even just with a little bit of editing, you're like, Oh my gosh, I sound great.

00:27:42:12 - 00:28:02:23
Nate Jorgensen
Yeah, that's awesome. And I back to like as many times as those people who are nervous that like because they have an active brain and they probably have a lot to say and there's so there's a lot of interesting information in there if it can be, you know, kind of smoothed out in the way that you all magically do right?

00:28:02:23 - 00:28:06:17
John Azoni
Yeah. Then that's. Pro-tip That's why we film with two cameras.

00:28:07:23 - 00:28:08:06
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:28:08:06 - 00:28:08:13
Nate Jorgensen
It's like.

00:28:08:14 - 00:28:09:01
John Azoni
Oh, it's.

00:28:10:02 - 00:28:10:18
Nate Jorgensen
An eight times.

00:28:10:18 - 00:28:14:13
John Azoni
Cut at any time and just switched to the other camera like it like it was the same sentence.

00:28:14:22 - 00:28:16:01
Nate Jorgensen
Yeah. Awesome.

00:28:16:20 - 00:28:19:12
John Azoni
Moving forward. So the podcast.

00:28:19:12 - 00:28:20:09
Speaker 3
Is.

00:28:20:21 - 00:28:42:06
John Azoni
Kind of a conglomerate of a lot of different departments, and that's been important to, you know, your work in your role at Miami University is kind of helping to join all these departments together and centralize a little bit. So tell me how how's the podcast like kind of help you do that and then talk about a little bit about some of these conversations that you're having?

00:28:43:13 - 00:29:07:06
Nate Jorgensen
Yeah, great question. And that's what I would just say something like this, like the podcast is just helps smooth out a little bit. So maybe over two years ago Miami made the decision at the very top levels to to consolidate things. I think a lot of universities did that around COVID and and so marketing was one of them.

00:29:07:06 - 00:29:50:00
Nate Jorgensen
And so instead of having, you know, a team of four or five in each college at times or zero in each college, that there is going to be one central marketing and communications office and a team member from the central team within the college, but not necessarily. It's their own team, just of their own. And so obviously in higher ed with that with anything and especially when you're kind of, you know, you could look at it in different ways, but you're taking something away and there's going to be a lot of bad feelings about that.

00:29:50:00 - 00:30:11:10
Nate Jorgensen
And, you know, for a big part of my start in this position was was just going in and listening to people and really giving people almost a year to just get it, get it out. Let me have it and let me know all the things that are that are so hard and bad about this. And they're not wrong either.

00:30:11:23 - 00:30:50:19
Nate Jorgensen
But we are we are doing this. And and so how do we make it work? And then so for something like major inside the to have a podcast like this that is like we've been talking about such an amazing product that they really didn't have access to before. It was something that was done in one college. But now to be able to go to the College of Engineering or the School of Business or the College of Arts and Science, and even have a bit of a strategy of be on the lookout for students who would be good candidates for this, either through their experiences or even just through how they communicate or both.

00:30:51:11 - 00:31:24:15
Nate Jorgensen
And and then they're getting more exposure through that. We try to we're we haven't done this all the way, and it's just from being busy. But, you know, we want to try to use the podcast and use the content in as many ways as possible as as everyone does. So to have the trans script for SEO and to have little snippets and to have quotes from the podcast to use and marketing copy and to to have little short videos that show, you know, the really interesting parts of each one that you can use more on social media.

00:31:24:23 - 00:31:51:20
Nate Jorgensen
We're getting there and trying to do that more and more. But you know, just long story short, and I could keep going on and on, that's just one of those examples where it's like, well, now because we are all together, we are all able to use this resource and to to get some time in the chair to be interviewed and to get your story out about your your program.

00:31:52:16 - 00:32:12:23
Nate Jorgensen
And, you know, that's more of just like finding people who are interesting to talk to and then like we said earlier, just letting the conversation be natural and not not telling them to talk about anything necessarily, but it always turns into great content just so it just always seems to work well for people.

00:32:13:21 - 00:32:34:21
John Azoni
Yeah. What do you guys have a strategy B when it comes to sourcing people to be on the podcast from different from the different schools? Does it just come down to having conversations with those different professors and things like that, or do you guys have a submission link that you know, you can people can submit to or how does that work there?

00:32:34:21 - 00:33:04:16
Nate Jorgensen
There is a submission link that's not like we haven't really widely promoted it or anything, but it's like within, within the listing, the episode listing page there, there is a contact form. But one of those things like going back to the anecdotal stories that you hear, like we have posters up all around campus and, and so the our host, Meredith is really like kind of very socially engaged.

00:33:05:00 - 00:33:27:12
Nate Jorgensen
And so people will see her on the poster, then come up and talk to her and and ask her about the podcast. We've found, you know, maybe, you know, ten or so gas just through that or through, then people realizing they know the person who's on it and recommending someone to be a guest because they have a great story.

00:33:28:13 - 00:33:59:23
Nate Jorgensen
And then in working with the individual colleges now as a central unit, that's where we're just kind of always putting out feelers. And different colleges do it in different ways where they might have a form that they they email out to their listserv saying, you know, we're looking for student stories, maybe for a variety of applications, but but having them fill that out, their name and all all their particulars, but then also kind of like what?

00:33:59:23 - 00:34:33:17
Nate Jorgensen
What's their story? What's what's the part that's the hook about your story? And so that can kind of escalate some stories that you get and then the other ones become just a nice little web feature to have within one departments section of the website. So yeah, and again, we probably haven't gotten official enough with that yet, maybe because it's been happening so naturally, but that's probably a direction that we're going to be heading soon, is just having more of a of a system for that.

00:34:33:17 - 00:35:16:23
Nate Jorgensen
We've worked with some classes recently on producing episodes and even putting together content for episodes, so we're more and more wanting the the Media Studies department to be involved in the podcast. And, and I could really see it kind of going places for their from there and even having like maybe spinoff podcasts where if it's someone talking about something else, maybe something not as, not as tight as ours in and clean in the end, you know, I would be okay with that, at least just as long as it's entertaining and somewhat appropriate.

00:35:18:00 - 00:35:38:21
Nate Jorgensen
But I just see a lot of opportunity there too. If we can just get more and more students involved and it's great experience for them like this. This is the name of the game you and I. You and I are doing this right now as as part of surviving. And so that is what the world is like. So that's something that we really like to do too.

00:35:38:21 - 00:35:42:03
Nate Jorgensen
Just kind of across the board is get students involved as much as possible.

00:35:43:04 - 00:36:15:17
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure I do. I do like that that student to student aspect of the of the podcast, it makes it feel more just accessible. I think. And then speaking of just like centralizing, you know, the campus, what challenges have you experienced in trying to make that transition? What what challenges does your team do You guys experience kind of like do all the requests for creative, you know, and marketing content come through you guys, for example, and is that difficult or It is.

00:36:15:18 - 00:36:50:11
Nate Jorgensen
I think I've experienced every challenge and and have gone through and am going through many different phases of that. When I, when I got there and I and I was hired into the position that that runs this part, you know, as academic director that was the job that I signed up for. So initially there is just kind of instant hostility when it comes to that.

00:36:50:11 - 00:37:14:15
Nate Jorgensen
And it's not your fault coming in. And I and I try like I said before, I tried to just be a listener for a long time and maybe offer some some ideas and maybe most of all just say like, how can I help you for a while? What's what's something that you're you're struggling with now because things have changed that I can help you with.

00:37:14:15 - 00:37:37:00
Nate Jorgensen
And kind of because of my background, I'm fortunate where I just have a lot of experience and a lot of different things and not not great at any one thing, but I can I can do it. So if someone said I haven't had a story published in a week and I would just be like, give me this, give me the student's name and and give me a couple days and I'll have a story for you.

00:37:37:09 - 00:37:58:14
Nate Jorgensen
So that's kind of like an example of where it's like, I would just get in and do it and then kind of hopefully build that trust that, you know, I'm here to help you and we're here to help you make this work and not just completely go a different direction away from the work that they had been doing and they had been doing good work.

00:37:59:06 - 00:38:27:23
Nate Jorgensen
And, you know, every spot, you know, some some deans are very supportive and understand right away and some deans are hostile to to the idea. And but it really has been even even the deans that you know, maybe hostel's too strong of a word. But again, it's a challenge. Higher ed is a challenge. And working in such a big organization is a challenge.

00:38:27:23 - 00:38:53:17
Nate Jorgensen
And with being a public institution is another part of the challenge. I guess just nonstop really nonsense at times where it's just like you're just dealing with stuff coming down, things changing and you have to roll with it. You have to keep finding a way to move stuff forward, but roll with that so everyone done a really good job of that.

00:38:53:17 - 00:39:11:02
Nate Jorgensen
But I just want to illustrate what I'm hoping to illustrate is just like people were all over the board where it's just like, you know, don't want to talk to you for a couple months. I got to cool down and others were just like, Hey, come on, come on, write it and let's talk about how to do that.

00:39:11:02 - 00:39:36:16
Nate Jorgensen
So we've gotten to a really good place right now. I just recently kind of did a reset with everyone where where I went through inside. Here's what I found over my first year and a half. And basically what I've concluded is that where we can help most as academic communicators and marketers is in the yield cycle for for recruitment.

00:39:37:01 - 00:40:13:08
Nate Jorgensen
And so when we have student prospective students who have applied to a specific program, that's when the colleges can really do their most concentrated, effective work. So like this spring, for example, we're going to be sending out marketing emails, but informational and marketing emails based on the student's major of interest and sometimes multiple majors of interest. So that's not something that I've found a whole lot of other people doing.

00:40:13:08 - 00:40:38:14
Nate Jorgensen
I you know, I think people have had the idea to do it and have done some part of it, but we're we're starting this year after kind of a slow roll out last year to really have a heavy project of having each major get a significant marketing email done for them and have all of that genuine content, hopefully.

00:40:38:22 - 00:41:02:04
Nate Jorgensen
And really then be able to take that measure at see how it did. The stuff we did last year really had great numbers behind it and so that's why we wrapped it up a little bit and then I could see us done maybe moving more into with the app generation phase with some of this content that we've we've started in the yield process.

00:41:03:12 - 00:41:22:12
Nate Jorgensen
And then, you know, kind of in between all of that, there's just all the little things that flare up where it's like there's this publication and that's going out to prospective students and make sure everyone agrees on what's in there. And you know, there's a ton of those per week. But then the the emails thing is kind of been the project that that I've seen an opportunity for.

00:41:22:12 - 00:41:55:01
Nate Jorgensen
And what I was saying is I just checked in with all of the deans and it was just so rewarding and nice to hear where they were. Just like, we think that's right on, you know, knowing all of the other things, variables that, that we have, we see your reasoning and we, we like what we see. So kind of the first time I felt that or heard that since I've been here, which is, which is fine because it is new and you don't expect someone to just go along instantly with what you're saying.

00:41:55:11 - 00:42:04:12
Nate Jorgensen
So I just wanted to say with all of that, like I just feel like we're at a really good place now where now we have some place to build on top of that.

00:42:05:18 - 00:42:17:08
John Azoni
That's awesome. That sounds really hard, but. But glad you're glad you're making progress there. It must be hard to enter into, you know, the pool of alligators or whatever.

00:42:17:21 - 00:42:20:07
Speaker 3
It's to the line of things.

00:42:20:07 - 00:42:53:18
Nate Jorgensen
Yeah. And I'm really glad, like, right when COVID hit and I kind of went through some you know, I went through COVID and I went through kind of the 2020 racial reckoning events which were so sorely needed and appropriate. But I was navigating some really tough waters at my job at See and what you see engineering and really what I found in that time, I was like, I, I did it.

00:42:53:18 - 00:43:30:00
Nate Jorgensen
I can I can do this. I did not do it perfectly. I did it, but I did it very genuinely and and did some other things that just kind of worked. And so that's where then I started thinking like, I want to be a CMO. I want to eventually become also the I that started me listening to higher ed marketing podcasts, and I got connected with Keller through his and listened to his ad and ended up just kind of emailing all of the people who had been interviewed on there.

00:43:30:12 - 00:43:56:20
Nate Jorgensen
And, and now all of these people are just like the biggest shakers in the business. Jamie Howe and Ethan Braden and Jenny Patti. They all they all emailed me right back. They all said, Let's set up a meeting for the next couple of days. Let's talk. And Jamie was at Miami at the time, and then a year and some changes later, she ended up getting a hold of me about the job and said to apply that I was fortunate enough to get it.

00:43:56:20 - 00:44:12:06
Nate Jorgensen
So I'll just kind of want to say that. And maybe for anyone out there who is aspiring in the same way, like I saw that challenge as something that I needed to learn to in order to become a CMO someday. And I'm really thankful that I did that.

00:44:12:21 - 00:44:23:04
John Azoni
That's awesome. Well, anyone that's listening to this podcast, if you are hiring for a CMO, I got got a guy right here.

00:44:24:12 - 00:44:27:17
Speaker 3
Thank you. Thank you.

00:44:27:17 - 00:44:37:08
John Azoni
But now this has been a really awesome conversation. I mean, I say that to every guest, but even if this was a bad conversation, I would say that. But this was actually a very good conversation.

00:44:38:19 - 00:44:40:02
Nate Jorgensen
Thank you for me, too.

00:44:40:07 - 00:44:59:08
John Azoni
Yeah, it's fun. It's funny because I actually found you on Parts podcast and that's part of my routine. Just as a podcast host and a business owner is I have like a 30 minute drive to the gym every day. So I count that because I work from home. So I'm like, I just count that as like my drive to work, you know?

00:44:59:08 - 00:45:12:19
John Azoni
And I listen to I listen to some higher ed marketing podcasts and I'm like, Who can I find on here that I can connect with how I heard you on that podcast? And we got connected that way. So I highly recommend that strategy. That's why we're here today.

00:45:13:11 - 00:45:25:15
Nate Jorgensen
Yeah, nice. It's funny how that works out and obviously worked out in my career as well too. It's just by when people say reach out at the end of the podcast to these people, it's like, reach out.

00:45:25:15 - 00:45:26:06
John Azoni
Yes. Seriously.

00:45:26:14 - 00:45:34:16
Nate Jorgensen
Anyone in any position, especially in this business that I found, is just so willing to help and talk. And I'm certainly the same way.

00:45:35:02 - 00:45:53:06
John Azoni
Yeah, I started guesting on more podcasts lately and I love when people reach out to me, even just they don't have much to say or they don't have a business proposition or anything just to say, Hey, I heard you on that podcast and it's cool. I'd like to it and I will like be like, Hey, let's grab a coffee, a virtual coffee or something like that.

00:45:53:06 - 00:46:02:10
John Azoni
Like, you know, even if it's not a super relevant connection to my business or my podcast, like, I just love meeting new people and I love when people just say hi.

00:46:03:01 - 00:46:32:10
Nate Jorgensen
Absolutely. And I think I pick that up really early, too, from just being a podcast person. Like, I would always listen to comedy podcasts, like comedians podcast, and then I would find them on Twitter like that. Just kept introducing me to more comedians and would email them. And some of them are famous. Yeah, they're famous now, some of them, but they weren't famous at the time and you could just message them on Twitter and they would say, Hey, thanks, yeah, I'm going to be in Detroit.

00:46:32:10 - 00:46:34:06
Nate Jorgensen
And I hope you come to the show.

00:46:34:20 - 00:46:38:19
John Azoni
That's cool. Do you listen to the Nate Land podcast for Nate?

00:46:38:22 - 00:47:02:23
Nate Jorgensen
No, not that one. And I know. Yeah. And I've heard a lot of good things about it and people don't talking about him with Saturday Night Live recently. That was so good. And I've fallen off a little bit because I've gotten I've gotten more into the My business, my professional podcast and but there are a couple that I listen to all the time.

00:47:03:17 - 00:47:24:05
John Azoni
Yeah, there's very few podcasts that I would like. Actually, Maitland is the only podcast. I'm actually like really trying to like, listen to all like, I don't know, there's almost 200 episodes now and I like really try to stay up on that one. But yeah, most of my podcast I listen to are just like I read like the Higher Ed Marketing podcast, but I always go back to that one because it's just really interesting.

00:47:24:05 - 00:47:31:22
John Azoni
It's like it's not like stand up comedy. It's like a few comedians kind of sitting around a table just talking about dumb stuff. But there's something about I.

00:47:31:22 - 00:48:01:09
Nate Jorgensen
Think that is the best comedy. I think too, like I've had the experience a lot of times where I listen to someone's podcast for a really long time, and then I watch their special and it's kind of a letdown because their podcast is so funny and so spontaneous and you realize kind of the cadence and the the atmosphere is different in, in a special or in a theater in whatever way that is.

00:48:01:09 - 00:48:05:23
Nate Jorgensen
But it's just like, Yeah, if I had the choice, I would just listen to another podcast, to tell you the truth.

00:48:05:23 - 00:48:26:15
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. I feel the same way. There's two different kinds of funny. It's like there's, there's witty and then and then there's like, I can put together an act. And if you have both of those, yeah, I think maybe I got sees a great example of someone who like incredibly witty in the moment on his podcast and also hilarious like in a staged performance.

00:48:27:07 - 00:48:27:15
Nate Jorgensen
Yeah.

00:48:27:18 - 00:48:30:05
John Azoni
Anyway not relevant to the topic of.

00:48:31:06 - 00:48:31:23
Speaker 3
The higher ed.

00:48:32:05 - 00:48:33:00
Nate Jorgensen
For another couple of.

00:48:33:01 - 00:48:33:10
Speaker 3
Hours.

00:48:34:17 - 00:48:40:21
John Azoni
As is the bonus. Okay, cool. Well, this has been great. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it.

00:48:41:17 - 00:48:44:20
Nate Jorgensen
Yeah, thank you, John. I really appreciate it. To all the best.