Higher Ed Storytelling University

00:00:00:12 - 00:00:27:20
John Azoni
My guest is Nikki Sandstrom. Nikki is both assistant VP of Strategic Communications at Indiana University and also teaches at University of Michigan School of Information. She is an award winning strategic communications leader of inclusive and innovative teams, and she's also a consultant and public speaker. And today, we're diving into the leadership and team building aspect of Nikki's work as we talk about how she built social media communications teams at both IU and U of M.

00:00:28:04 - 00:00:29:18
John Azoni
So, Nikki, welcome to the show.

00:00:30:14 - 00:00:31:19
Nikki Sunstrum
Thank you so much for having me.

00:00:33:04 - 00:00:39:00
John Azoni
So we always start off with this icebreaker. What's what's something that people would be surprised to know about you?

00:00:39:10 - 00:01:00:10
Nikki Sunstrum
Excellent question. So I usually have to go tos on this, both of which, if you followed me on social media for any amount of time, perhaps you heard of the one. I am the mother of six. And I knew the new caveat to that, which fewer people know, is actually, I have two grandchildren now. So that's my new wowser.

00:01:00:10 - 00:01:27:09
Nikki Sunstrum
Kind of fun fact. Your children, I see. Yes. Yeah, exactly. My oldest daughter is is 21 and married now. And it's just wild. So that'll make you feel old on any given day. But the other fun fact that I always like to draw attention to is that my family has successfully traveled all 48 continental United States and two countries.

00:01:27:21 - 00:01:44:02
Nikki Sunstrum
We love to road trip and find lovely restaurants and locations off the beaten path and really encounter and explore Canada and America. But meet phenomenal people and really, you know, think deeply about the world around us.

00:01:44:02 - 00:01:52:00
John Azoni
So cool. That's awesome. Thanks for sharing that. And people that are listening and not watching the video version. Nicky looks extremely young.

00:01:53:12 - 00:01:54:13
Nikki Sunstrum
Thank you very much.

00:01:55:04 - 00:02:03:15
John Azoni
Does not look old enough to have teenagers even let alone great grandchildren. So. So that's what my my response was.

00:02:04:06 - 00:02:06:19
Nikki Sunstrum
Was you're not the first one. It's okay. John. Yeah.

00:02:08:05 - 00:02:17:12
John Azoni
Okay. So tell us about your background a little bit. How did you get, you know, kind of to the topic we're talking about today where you're building comms teams and things like that?

00:02:17:21 - 00:02:48:20
Nikki Sunstrum
Absolutely. So my journey in communications or comms strategy started during my undergraduate experience where I was studying political science, was really passionate about public service and community building and philanthropy. And I wanted to have a prominent role that brought people together and advocated on behalf of those that most require and have have the need. Right. Really thinking about community, the government specifically, and how to service the people.

00:02:49:12 - 00:03:13:05
Nikki Sunstrum
And I've always been incredibly passionate about that from being the party thrower in high school to being on a student council and things like that. So I ended up running for elected office in our former town where we lived in West Michigan and really enjoyed that. And utilized social media as a background as many politicians do in these these days to create my campaign.

00:03:13:17 - 00:03:51:11
Nikki Sunstrum
Around the same time I found myself working in policy and legislative affairs for the state of Michigan and advocating that social media be used more widely as a tool to increase government transparency and improve constituent relations. And that very quickly then became my full time job. So I was the state of Michigan's first full time social media coordinator, and I managed and built the digital presence across state government departments and the governor's office and influence leaders and brands and businesses and created the first statewide social media day.

00:03:51:17 - 00:04:21:23
Nikki Sunstrum
If you think back for those that have been in the industry long enough, it was a completely different world. My favorite experience and campaign, I think, was we went around with giant thumbs and had people talk about why they liked us on Facebook. Right? The good old days is, as I will call them, and then the University of Michigan ended up calling me back in 2013 and saying, Hey, we really want to look at strategic social media or look at social media strategically, and we'd love to have you come down and talk to us.

00:04:21:23 - 00:05:02:19
Nikki Sunstrum
And so I ended up in an arbor and I spent nine really fantastic years there building out one of the best social media teams in the higher ed industry, which led, of course, to an opportunity to elevate my profile here at Indiana University as the assistant vice President for Strategic Communications, a portfolio that expands beyond just social but into crisis and exit comms and public safety communications and state impact, and really talks about and demonstrates in a tangible way how much social touches, which, ironically enough, is exactly what I talk about in my course at Michigan.

00:05:02:19 - 00:05:08:20
Nikki Sunstrum
Each week was how social media is just prominent in every aspect of our life.

00:05:09:13 - 00:05:11:12
John Azoni
I don't know, I it just gave a thumbs down.

00:05:11:15 - 00:05:17:08
Nikki Sunstrum
You gave me a thumbs down. It's okay. I talked about, you know, social media. Sometimes I want to give that a thumbs down on Riverside.

00:05:17:08 - 00:05:21:08
John Azoni
I didn't even do a thumb. I didn't just sitting here listening to you.

00:05:21:22 - 00:05:23:01
Nikki Sunstrum
All these reactions.

00:05:23:05 - 00:05:26:20
John Azoni
Let me let me turn the tables here and give you some fireworks.

00:05:26:22 - 00:05:36:10
Nikki Sunstrum
Oh, nice. I like it. It's good stuff. I heard recently something about confetti and jasmine angers, but I haven't been able to get it to work. You're like.

00:05:36:17 - 00:05:52:17
John Azoni
You're probably you're like, talking. And I'm just like, Oh, cool. Well, so you've done a lot. That's awesome. Did you. Was it like Governor Whitmer, that you were working with or.

00:05:53:09 - 00:06:10:11
Nikki Sunstrum
Well, this this will tell my origin story of just how old I am, But I actually came in the state government under Governor Granholm for the tail end of her administration and then spend the majority of the Snyder administration. So I was at Michigan by the time Governor Whitmer entered office.

00:06:10:18 - 00:06:35:10
John Azoni
Okay, cool. Yeah. My my family loves Ann Arbor. We we did like, a day. My my wife took my youngest daughter. I just on a special mother daughter date to on a train from Detroit to Ann Arbor, which is like a short enough train trip for, you know, a four year old at the time. So that was fun for her.

00:06:35:10 - 00:07:02:01
John Azoni
And since then, she just they went to the Hands-On Museum and some other stuff. Yeah. And and Raelyn, my daughter, she just loves Ann Arbor. So I told I told both my girls, my my oldest is almost nine. So when you turn ten, you know, I'm going to take you anywhere you want to go. Let's let's just like whatever you're into, you know, let's let's just go like, my oldest is really into, like, roller coaster.

00:07:02:01 - 00:07:09:23
John Azoni
So we might just go find like, oh, scariest roller coaster or something. My, my youngest, Rylan, she's like, I just want to go to Ann Arbor.

00:07:10:17 - 00:07:11:03
Nikki Sunstrum
I'm like.

00:07:11:22 - 00:07:13:00
John Azoni
Like really?

00:07:14:08 - 00:07:26:23
Nikki Sunstrum
I mean, I'm going to miss it. But I'm pretty sure that Ann Arbor, within the last couple of years, one like the most our best city to move to or something. So she's not alone. There are a lot of big fans of Ann Arbor.

00:07:27:05 - 00:07:45:03
John Azoni
I believe it. Yeah, it is. It is a really cool town. Okay, so what are so when it comes to building, you know, teams at both of these schools, like what are some unique challenges that come along with staffing creative teams within A because these are large, you know, university system. So what are some of those challenges?

00:07:45:17 - 00:08:16:16
Nikki Sunstrum
Absolutely. And I think that, you know, my response to this question changes each time that I'm asked it, because I've had some really unique opportunities to build teams within, also reorganize and restructure teams. So I'll start first with my journey at Michigan. When I arrived in 2014, I had one full time social media staff person, so as myself as a director and we had a content manager and then we were very lucky to have a couple of student interns.

00:08:17:07 - 00:08:56:16
Nikki Sunstrum
By the time that I left Michigan, I have a team of 12, right? So we were able to make strategic, justified investments in time, talent and resources that would allow us to really create nation. And this is where I think social needs to head and should be heading, right? We need to navigate away from what I've always disliked, which is the ninja guru maven, insert ridiculous adjective word that we've been called for so long and start to think of these strategic strategic communications tools.

00:08:58:00 - 00:09:32:14
Nikki Sunstrum
You need an animator, you need an illustrator, you need a graphic designer, you need someone that is specialized in vertical video. So some may know this, but the University of Michigan actually entered the Tick-Tock game sort of late in comparison to some other higher education institutions where we'd been a thought leader in a lot of other spaces. But that was incredibly intentional and it was because I was still building my case to justify a full time position on my staff that was dedicated to vertical video, and I was able to accomplish that at Michigan.

00:09:32:14 - 00:10:09:03
Nikki Sunstrum
So Pat Stanisic has been there for almost three years now, and his whole role is to build up vertical video, which we know is one of the most pivotal content aspects of social media, because when Instagram started to prioritize it and stories were introduced, it completely changed how we tell stories. And so I think that's where my top piece of advice is, is to look at your team, to look at your structure, to look at your organization, and stop being Jackson Janes of all trades, or using it as a badge of honor to be a one stop shop.

00:10:09:11 - 00:10:38:06
Nikki Sunstrum
Does that mean that you won't still have to create a graphic? No, I did that yesterday. Right. Will you not be able to produce and like weigh in on how a video is going to look? I did that last week, right? We still need to be able to be cross functional, but we need to advocate to build out teams that are intentional in order to meet the goals and objectives of our institutions or our brands or our businesses and that I've been fortunate to do here at U.

00:10:38:07 - 00:11:21:00
Nikki Sunstrum
So while I have made hires, I also adopted a really phenomenal team of existing staff as well as brought on and shifted and adjusted individuals from other business units who had specialized skills that would benefit you as an institution within the social media portfolio. And so some of that looks like specific individuals that are allocated to daily reporting and tracking online conversation to mitigate institutional risk and help us elevate concerns, other facets of that look like somebody that's allocated specifically to the strategy related to visualize ZATION.

00:11:21:08 - 00:11:38:12
Nikki Sunstrum
So who's looking at Instagram not just on a day to day basis, but on a month to month and a year to year basis to say, how are we doing a really diligent job of being inclusive, of being accessible, of making sure that the story aligns with the narrative that we're trying to promote on the behalf of the institution.

00:11:38:21 - 00:12:04:04
Nikki Sunstrum
And that can't always be done with headcount. I know that's always a challenge with budget models in higher education as a whole. And so sometimes it's about collaboration. So who can you find across the institution? What networks can you build? Who can you get to help source content? What's that narrative that you can say? So that everyone has a shared vision for success and that's how you build a strong team.

00:12:05:18 - 00:12:36:09
John Azoni
I like what you said to the, you know, Oh, you know, it's like we've hired a social media rock star or something like that. And you know, and most schools and I know like for smaller colleges to have a social media person at all might be a luxury or a new thing. So not to discount that. But however, as you grow that, you have to realize that that is not like that's such a broad job.

00:12:37:02 - 00:12:59:03
John Azoni
Yes, I had there's one school that I work with on video stuff, and when I first started working with them, my contact there she was, she was the sole social media person for and they have multiple campus campuses across the state of Maryland. So and she was just like drowning.

00:12:59:03 - 00:12:59:07
Nikki Sunstrum
So.

00:12:59:21 - 00:13:20:13
John Azoni
You know, and and and not only that, they were expecting her to also make a bunch of videos and do all the all the photography and stuff like that. So like the partnership, you know, with with me made a lot of sense because I actually kind of like took a lot of that content. So like, let her just focus on the social media part.

00:13:20:22 - 00:14:00:15
John Azoni
But even just focusing on the social media part, it was like it's a ton of work and I love that you guys have or just just the idea of someone dedicated to vertical video. And I think that's I love that you couch it like that because it's not just like someone just dedicated to, you know, TikTok or or whatever, but it's like this whole category of short form vertical video that is taking off and it has its own place in this whole social media thing where it like it's a certain type of video that that people are kind of looking for certain things that they're looking to see in your school or certain types of

00:14:00:15 - 00:14:26:22
John Azoni
entertainment. But also they just the reach is really crazy on these. And to understand how to ride the wave of that reach is and it's always changing. I mean, the what's what's really interesting to me is that like because I've been experimenting with vertical videos, with snippets from the podcast, my first my first YouTube short got like 5000 views or something like that.

00:14:27:06 - 00:14:47:06
John Azoni
And then the one I posted yesterday, which I spent the most like, I hired an editor that I paid to do this, this video. It was the most expensive social video I've ever done. I think it has three views right now. That was that's great. It's like it's like just dealing with these algorithms. You need someone to keep up on it.

00:14:47:10 - 00:14:59:08
John Azoni
Down like I'm like, up at like six in the morning. Like, what is going on with the algorithm here? What changed? You know, it's constantly changing and, and specific to these, these vertical videos.

00:15:00:03 - 00:15:27:23
Nikki Sunstrum
Yes. That one person I was having a dialog earlier today, specific related to the course. One of the courses that I instruct at Michigan, you know, the the title of the course is social media organizations. But in speaking to that class, we're not like teaching content creation. We're teaching the strategy behind social media as a communications vehicle. Right?

00:15:27:23 - 00:16:14:17
Nikki Sunstrum
So I've long said social media is a tool, not a solution. And that reminder of the position and role that it plays within a really robust comms strategy is so vitally important and that is a far different mindset than somebody that does know how to create a really great tip top, right? And so you've got to you have to have either, well, they call them a unicorn, I guess someone that can do both, which are fewer and further between or put the investment behind getting the people that can niche in those areas and bring the most value to your institution.

00:16:14:17 - 00:16:41:17
Nikki Sunstrum
Right. If you make the strategic investments and the financial investments to say we want somebody that has a strategic comms mindset, that understands crisis, that understands the role that social media plays in the front door to an institution both proactively and from a risk mitigation standpoint. You know that mine can then feed and say, based on this conversation, we're seeing an uptick in bike theft.

00:16:41:17 - 00:17:07:01
Nikki Sunstrum
We're seeing an uptick in sexual assault. We're seeing an uptick in name your concern from your community and then turn that to your creative team and the social media team and say, you know what, let's do a faculty expert interview. Let's get a law enforcement officer on a vertical video. Let's get some student ambassadors to talk about this in a peer to peer sort of fashion, or let's create graphics that offer resources.

00:17:07:19 - 00:17:14:22
Nikki Sunstrum
Those those are the things that you need on a team in order to really make headway. And facilitate impact.

00:17:16:04 - 00:17:28:10
John Azoni
Yeah. And as you're as you're building these teams, like where where are you looking for? How are you sourcing talents? Are you posting a job and just vetting applications or. Yeah, tell me about that.

00:17:29:18 - 00:17:58:21
Nikki Sunstrum
So Allen said that some of the most at least in the beginning, I did the first decade of my professional career that was impacted by social media. Some of the most qualified, even though they didn't think that they were individuals working in this space, were coming from politics because they really understood how to synthesize information and perhaps sensationalize problems.

00:17:59:03 - 00:18:22:22
Nikki Sunstrum
Right. So that grassroots mentality of campaign and advocacy, we saw a lot of individuals emerge from that space and come into social and strategic comms. And that was just the origins, I think, of social media, right? Like, how were you going to poke, prod and gather and bring people together in the way that you would with a campaign or doorknocking or whatever else it might be?

00:18:24:03 - 00:19:06:14
Nikki Sunstrum
From there, we saw a lot of colleges, including Michigan, start to have areas of focus, whether it be majors or minors specifically related to social media. Within my nine years at Michigan, I had 44 different student interns that were within our office. Some stayed for a semester, some stayed for all four years of their academic journey. I want to say only one of them had a minor in social media because for us it's all about the perspective that you can bring and the passion that you bring and the ability to look at things that will be unique and applicable.

00:19:07:02 - 00:19:38:02
Nikki Sunstrum
Conversation or visual sort of ideation because we're looking externally, right? If you think about it from a marketing perspective and not just a comms perspective, I want prospective students to see social media content that makes them want to go to this institution, that makes them feel like their voice would be heard and their perspective would be valued in their background, would be appreciated, that they would feel like a member of a community where they can thrive.

00:19:38:13 - 00:20:10:03
Nikki Sunstrum
And that is not that required that you study social media to get that. You could be an organizational psychology major. I had one of those. You could be a sports management major. I had one of those, ah in design was always a popular one, particularly with with videos and graphics. Psychology is one that I've seen emerge more and more as we think about misinformation and doxing and well, being in the social media space, like what impact are we actually having in culture and society?

00:20:10:03 - 00:20:40:03
Nikki Sunstrum
And if you have that broad perspective and can bring forth the value within social media, I don't care where you're coming from necessarily from a talent perspective, right? But you've got to understand the power and potential of social media and we can have that conversation. And so since coming here to IU, we've seen people come from nonprofit, also come from government, certainly people that have come backgrounds.

00:20:40:21 - 00:21:07:06
Nikki Sunstrum
But you know, I if you apply, I'll look at them all. And honestly where I source the most talent has been through the network. I've been able to build across higher education because those in social media and higher that get it, get it and they are really tremendous people who appreciate and I think value what great people can bring to our industry.

00:21:07:17 - 00:21:16:15
Nikki Sunstrum
And so usually I can make a few outreaches and they'll say, you need to talk to this person or you need to talk to this person. And they've never let me down yet.

00:21:17:14 - 00:21:44:04
John Azoni
That's yeah, that's really interesting. And I feel the same way. Like in my experience as being a video producer, hiring people and working with a lot of freelancers, my favorite people to work with are the ones that didn't go to film school. You know, they they are. And that's not to say, like, I've worked with a lot of great more like traditional like brought up in the film school kind of world people and they're great.

00:21:44:17 - 00:22:05:11
John Azoni
However, you know what what you know I'm looking for is more of like an artist or like, you know, a director. If you can direct and you can and you have creative ideas and you're not just someone that's like, Well, tell me what to do. You know, where where do I point the camera or what, What should all the camera settings be like?

00:22:05:11 - 00:22:12:16
John Azoni
If you can, like, think on your feet and have some vision, all the technical stuff, you can teach all that stuff.

00:22:12:21 - 00:22:13:03
Nikki Sunstrum
Yeah.

00:22:14:05 - 00:22:31:06
John Azoni
But it's, it's really trying to hire the other way around. Hiring for someone that, that is knows how to make a good video like but doesn't really know how to create as well. There are way more of those people than you realize.

00:22:32:08 - 00:22:54:20
Nikki Sunstrum
Well I think video is an excellent example, John. It's it's that you you might have some really classically, if you will, trained videographers who are incredibly skilled. What can they do? Short form? Can they adopt trends? Can they do vertical? Are they going to come to me and say, I shot this horizontally, I'm just going to cut it for vertical and then I'm going to say, Yeah, that's not going to work, right?

00:22:55:03 - 00:23:23:00
Nikki Sunstrum
Or can they translate a really complex topic in a way that will resonate with the target demographic? Like those are those are social media skills that are so unique, I think, to our industry. We're beginning to see them, I think, in a multitude of other spaces, primarily marketing. But the best way to see where it falls short is in all of these brands that fall terribly on their faces, right?

00:23:23:01 - 00:23:32:13
Nikki Sunstrum
Like they might have had a really good videographer, but they lacked all of those other social awareness pieces that would have made their content really sing.

00:23:33:13 - 00:23:58:22
John Azoni
Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Just thinking about it from like a really strategic communications point of view. And I never thought about it as like, you know, people coming out of the political sphere would be really good at that. But that makes perfect sense because I remember, you know, when in the early days of social media and President Obama then, like he that was like how he got to office was like this crazy campaign, social media campaign.

00:23:59:08 - 00:24:39:22
John Azoni
And I remember I was just starting like my marketing social media kind of interests around then. And that was really influential to to see like, you know, a presidential candidate did something like really different. You know, from a lot of people and really utilize the current tools in a strategic way. Obviously, his his team, you know, of most mostly but yet very different from just someone that you know kind of knows me, knows about the algorithms here and there and, you know, knows how to publish something or, you know, it's it's so much, so much deeper than that.

00:24:40:17 - 00:24:58:15
John Azoni
You're I want to ask you, you're the the the the person you mentioned that does the vertical video stuff. Are you guys shooting that stuff on a phone? Like is that part of like we're intentionally shooting on the phone or are you like repurposing content from the video? People?

00:24:59:04 - 00:25:25:12
Nikki Sunstrum
Sure, I can answer that to the best of my ability since I departed from my role at Michigan a year ago now this month. But some of it is fun. A lot of it is is phone based and then other adaptations come from more traditional videography works. It then is edited to fit a vertical format, but shot in a way that it's not duplicated.

00:25:25:12 - 00:25:59:06
Nikki Sunstrum
And that's one of the things that I spend a lot of time teaching and mentoring on here. I you is how to ensure that each piece of content that you're creating is unique to the platform, right? How do we optimize not just four dimensions and ratios but for communities and target demographics? Because what may work on Instagram in a vertical right, not just because TikTok and Instagram like the site, but like what might work here and is trending in this space is not the same is over here.

00:25:59:15 - 00:26:34:15
Nikki Sunstrum
And I love that you brought up President Obama because it's such a fascinating case study that is still true today When you look at influencer culture building authentic, transparent, identifiable personalities will keep you top of mind in conversation for decades to come. Right? So there's been a lot of conversation just that I've seen recently in algorithms that, you know, sort of like in back with Gen Z and even a little bit of Gen Alpha on who and where influencers have gone.

00:26:34:16 - 00:27:07:09
Nikki Sunstrum
Right? But when you think about it, they probably moved into a different phase of their life where they're not vlogging every day, right? Or they're not doing a food blog or whatever else. But President Obama is still active in social media, whether it's likely still a teen, but he built the personality that people identified with where they could probably tell you more about him as a person and why they support him as a politician than maybe even the laws he actually passed.

00:27:07:13 - 00:27:33:02
Nikki Sunstrum
Right. But he's our friend. He's our ally, and he's somebody that we have confidence and trust in, at least from the perception that he built in social media. And anybody could potentially do that. And then we see other people that do it really poorly, whether it's valid or not, then everybody just likes you, right? And so the power of social in those spaces is just absolutely fascinating.

00:27:33:21 - 00:28:12:06
John Azoni
Yeah, I was discussing that with well, it will be a couple episodes by the time this comes out. A couple episodes ago. Sure. With Jeremy Tears from the Mission Admissions podcast, we were talking about just like what a great idea that would be to build accounts like schools sponsored accounts that are just uplifting, like like one count for one individual and you're kind of setting them up to just be a personality and show like day in the Life stuff like, I'm waking up, get ready with me while I get ready to go to class.

00:28:12:06 - 00:28:34:18
John Azoni
Like whatever, whatever it is, whatever the trends are or whatever is like authentic. But like, like for a prospective student to be like, I want to follow like I what I really want to like because we follow like reality TV characters, right? Like I watched Love Is Blind and then I will go down the rabbit hole and all these people look them up on Instagram.

00:28:34:18 - 00:28:57:21
John Azoni
I'm like, I've like my wife and I really obsessed with that show. I'm probably more obsessed, which is. But but yeah, I mean, like when you when you connect with someone or you're just you're just intrigued by, you know, by someone's journey or whatever, or maybe they're the villain and you just like love to, you know, let's, let's put it like, love it.

00:28:57:21 - 00:29:22:00
John Azoni
Love is behind you like you, you want to like research, like, what's the villain up to right now? You know, like, you follow these people and and you get attached to them, you know, and to have that that sort of phenomenon play out with getting attached to the brand, I don't think enough organizations really play with that level of content creation.

00:29:22:20 - 00:29:40:09
John Azoni
You know, we think about marketing as like, well, here's all the things I want to say about my school. Yeah, but really but really it is. I like the though the way you put it is like building, you know, personality. You know, that people can attach to you and know and like and trust and so.

00:29:40:22 - 00:30:11:11
Nikki Sunstrum
The perfect example of this, which based on your timing, will probably be a while back. But this last weekend, Tik Tok was captivated by this woman named recent Lisa, who was telling a 50 part story about her encounter with her former spouse, who she classified as a pathological liar. Right. So it was it was everywhere. And she created this series as just a normal person.

00:30:12:06 - 00:30:36:09
Nikki Sunstrum
But in the comments and the shares of her story and the duets of her story, people are raising funds for her. They're trying to get her on these journeys that her ex-husband had promised Somebody, of course, doxxed and found. The ex-husband everyone was was captivated by this journey of this stranger. Right. But said, I feel like we're friends now.

00:30:36:09 - 00:31:00:12
Nikki Sunstrum
You really helped me. This is enlightened, my journey. I need to look into my ex-husband now, like all of these just wild things from someone that we would have never met in real life. And her story will shape right? The story of many others at this point, and not to cast doubt on her because I believed the narrative that she was telling.

00:31:01:11 - 00:31:10:23
Nikki Sunstrum
But that's part of the issue because we do. I like to say we we blindly trust the Internet in ways we would never trust a person.

00:31:11:10 - 00:31:11:23
John Azoni
Absolutely.

00:31:12:06 - 00:31:41:17
Nikki Sunstrum
What what if that story is actually fabrication and what if she did through a bad situation or a traumatic situation, telling their added that wasn't true about this individual? And then how do you repair that reputation? And there's probably a whole legal battle in there, too, about talking about people like that. But it's just fascinating to watch people take things at face value and make friends and identify with individuals.

00:31:41:17 - 00:32:05:19
Nikki Sunstrum
And I think there's an enormous amount of responsibility that we hold as brands, businesses and organizations when we start to dip our toe into that water about who we build out that personality around, whether it be an executive leader or president, a dean within the higher education environment, because they're still people and they're not all flawless or perfect.

00:32:05:19 - 00:32:26:16
Nikki Sunstrum
And we ask a lot when we feature students in our content because people might be mad at us for a different reason, and then they get thrown within that mix. Or we visualize an identity that the Internet might not agree with, and then they get thrown into the mix. And I just think we have to be incredibly careful and really thoughtful about how we do that.

00:32:27:16 - 00:32:48:09
John Azoni
Absolutely. It makes me think of, I mean, the idea of responsibility. It makes me think of the show cheer that was on. And I don't remember the school, but one of the main guys was like everyone's favorite. And he was on all these talk shows and stuff because he had this, like, funny, like way of encouraging, you know, people on the mat.

00:32:48:20 - 00:33:21:18
John Azoni
And then and now he's in jail for sexual assault and, and that was a big thing. And then Netflix did like a whole sort of series on the fallout of that. But the fallout was quite significant, you know, for him personally, for the coach, for the school. So, yeah. Okay. So you you had mentioned just the importance of tell me how important is like the well-being of your team when it comes to, you know, things like burnout, helping them grow in their careers, things like that?

00:33:22:17 - 00:33:46:17
Nikki Sunstrum
Absolutely. You know, this is something that from a leadership perspective, I think truly has to match the evolution of the platforms on which we are asking and requiring them to work. And when you look at something like social media and how quickly it evolves and the prominent role that it plays in crisis communications and risk assessment and responsiveness.

00:33:46:17 - 00:34:15:14
Nikki Sunstrum
Right. So you can utilize another Michigan institution as an example. Active shooter scenarios are active attacker scenarios play out every time your community is upset about a response to a political incident that all plays out in social media. And so if you're not tending to and prioritizing the well-being of your teams and your leadership, you you will see burnout.

00:34:15:14 - 00:34:43:09
Nikki Sunstrum
Right? And we saw a massive amount of this, a massive exodus, if you will, during the pandemic. Tons of people were like, I'm done with social media, not just personally, but professionally. They were transitioning out of the industry because you were bearing the brunt of the online criticism, but in many circumstances had no real influence over the decision making process, right?

00:34:43:09 - 00:35:12:09
Nikki Sunstrum
So you would see people being doxxed on social media, stuck for vaccination requirements and collegiate institutions. And they they didn't make that decision. Right. They were the institutional president. They were weren't the CDC. But they were the ones that had to read every comment or criticism that came their way, every concern about COVID and moving collegiate audiences back onto campuses.

00:35:13:00 - 00:35:45:14
Nikki Sunstrum
Every complaint about your Fyre Festival, food offering or quarantine, right? Like it's right, it's crazy to not think. And I feel like it's far too frequently done. It's missed what they're seeing and they're exposed to. So when it comes to how I, I need right and I have the perspective moving up through this industry, I always look at my role as a content U.S. and content advocate, ally and sort of that frontline barrier.

00:35:45:15 - 00:36:17:10
Nikki Sunstrum
Right. A buffer, if you will, to both say, my team really needs this time or they're working outside of business hours regularly or they they need and deserve this coffee day or this lunch or the ability to work remotely on a Friday or any given day, whatever I can do to ensure that those above me understand the strategic value and importance and the impact that that stuff is having is it's the best way that I've found to try to tend to their well-being.

00:36:17:14 - 00:36:42:01
Nikki Sunstrum
And the other side of that is helping them to grow and succeed in their existing roles, but thrive outside when they make the decision to leave. Right? So yeah, yeah, I don't think and I've already moved on to a role that social media is within the portfolio. But when I was director of social media at Michigan for nine years, I would always say like, I'm not going to retire as director of social media.

00:36:42:06 - 00:37:08:06
Nikki Sunstrum
This isn't a career that I retire from as just a singular sort of space within the industry. And I think we have to acknowledge that as leaders, if we do our job well, people within the social space will continue to move up to the point that then they move on and move out. And that's why we need to build them into really phenomenal strategic communicators and not just social media specialists, right?

00:37:08:06 - 00:37:37:05
Nikki Sunstrum
Not just people that can write the copy, but they write the copy in a way that aligns with the strategic purpose, that achieves a goal on behalf of the institution or that presents inclusion, accessibility, affordability, whatever that narrative for higher ed is. And then they can pitch that to be a manager or a comms director at some point or move into a space that they feel incredibly passionate about and rewarded with it.

00:37:38:14 - 00:38:07:01
John Azoni
Yeah, that's good. And for yeah, it's and it's in content creation too I think is a, I mean from, from a content creators perspective it's very stressful. It's to do, you know, hit deadlines and stuff like that. And then also you know, to see maybe your yourself grow in a different way. And I've been, you know, in jobs before where it felt like there was like a ceiling and, you know, you don't you don't want that.

00:38:07:01 - 00:38:34:20
John Azoni
You know, I have so much respect for my my previous boss for just allowing me to to to grow and kind of giving me the opportunity to fail. And and just most of the time just laughing with me about the failures. You know, he didn't take stuff to to to dramatically but but yeah it's so important. And a side note, I can't figure out how to turn these thumbs down off.

00:38:34:20 - 00:38:37:09
John Azoni
I don't know what Yeah. Where is it pulling.

00:38:37:09 - 00:38:54:05
Nikki Sunstrum
It But if you look back at my LinkedIn you'll see that recently I actually shared because in our staff meetings here kept ending up with fireworks and thumbs up and I couldn't figure out how to turn it off. So now we just embraced it. We just go all out all the time.

00:38:54:12 - 00:39:03:21
John Azoni
Yeah. All right. Well, for people listening, it keeps it keeps having like this. This like a thumbs down hand come up on my screen as if I'm disliking what Nikki's saying.

00:39:04:17 - 00:39:06:12
Nikki Sunstrum
I feel terribly judged. Yeah.

00:39:07:17 - 00:39:31:05
John Azoni
All right. To Google, we will go after after this call. And Tuesday. Okay, cool. So that's those are great thoughts. What would you what would you give what advice would you give to a smaller school that doesn't have the resources as a large university system to hire out these individual team roles?

00:39:32:09 - 00:40:06:17
Nikki Sunstrum
Yeah, I, I think first and foremost, when I think about how I've mentored individuals in this space, I do have smaller teams. You really have to set realistic expectations for your and your leadership based on what your organization is capable of. And I've spent the last decade helping organizations streamline their social media to increase impact ineffectiveness. If I could delete Facebook from everywhere, I probably would.

00:40:07:12 - 00:40:46:23
Nikki Sunstrum
But it may not be the right place for you, and it's unrealistic if you are one person organizational team to be on 12 platforms. It is maybe your time is best spent only having a tip top right? Who's your target demographic? What are you capable of creating and communicating that right? Communicating regularly that you may be overwhelmed or stressed or need a resource or need help, assistance and advocacy to get a network colleague or maybe resources from the marketing team that has a photographer.

00:40:47:22 - 00:41:22:10
Nikki Sunstrum
It's unrealistic for you to be a videographer photographer, a copy editor and graphic designer, and also put content out across Facebook, TikTok, Instagram and X, right? It's just that's not the world that we live in anymore. And when you think about even using higher education and the evolution of Twitter into X as an example, we have a lot of legacy accounts there right now that aren't having the same impact, but we're still allocating the same time and resources to them.

00:41:22:13 - 00:41:53:20
Nikki Sunstrum
And at some point we have to ask ourselves why. So we can't be scared of those difficult conversations because we need to remain rooted in strategy and in not just content creation. I think some of that is because those that haven't been in the industry for 20 years forget that we've actually been here a while and we spent so much time advocating just to get a social resource, whether it be one or ten, that now we want to continue to justify their existence.

00:41:54:12 - 00:42:08:16
Nikki Sunstrum
We just need to think differently about how we do that, right. It shouldn't mean that we're cutting it by cutting a platform. It means we get to do these other platforms even better. And that's what we need to focus on is the optimization, the intentionality and the value that we can add.

00:42:09:19 - 00:42:31:13
John Azoni
Yeah, that's that's super good. Yeah. Just focusing in to it's such a, it's such a grind to feel like all these new these new platforms are coming out and you have to try to understand all of them. And I think that's so important to, to just give people permission to, to go. You don't have to understand all of them if that if you're if you're the one person, you know.

00:42:31:16 - 00:42:49:20
John Azoni
So, yeah, that's great. Where would you like to see or you know, where do you see your current team, you know, growing improving, you know, over the next year or two, what you know, what are you doing to kind of elevate, you know, skill levels And yeah, just talk about growth for your team.

00:42:50:09 - 00:43:21:15
Nikki Sunstrum
Sure, Sure. So, you know, with each individual, it's uniquely different and I'm constantly having conversations to check in with them about how they feel like projects that they're doing are going or offering them opportunities to, of course, elevate their ideas and shape. Maybe it's a six week campaign for graduation this year, or maybe it's what our our back to school influencer sort of video might look like.

00:43:22:06 - 00:43:51:03
Nikki Sunstrum
How do we build out the internal team? Like how do we give them opportunities to manage content projects if that is what they're interested in, right? For others, they might be focused more on strategy. So looking holistically at peer comparison and benchmarks and how can we continue to to move our ourselves forward. Growth has become so incredibly difficult in social media as platforms have aged.

00:43:51:11 - 00:44:25:07
Nikki Sunstrum
So what are our unique offering? And some like to focus on that. Some I know are prepared to move on and outward. And how can I help you grow within that area and communicate how robust your portfolio is? Right. I do it a ton of sort of mentorship around, not just selling yourself as a social media specialist. Yes, it is valuable, but if don't want to go into another social media specific role, you need to talk about the work that you've done in a different way.

00:44:26:00 - 00:44:58:06
Nikki Sunstrum
Right? I'm not just a content creator, but I created some plans. I mitigated risk online, I measured and did reporting. I did storytelling. Right. Maybe they want to move into marketing. I focused on integrating brand. All of those things are present in a social media content specialist role or a social media manager or director. And so when you're thinking about how to help people grow, it's helping them to see themselves holistically and really position themselves for success.

00:44:58:06 - 00:45:17:07
Nikki Sunstrum
And it's something that I honestly really love and feel deeply passionate about doing, which takes me all the way back to the beginning of my journey right? I am an advocate for people, brands, businesses and organizations, and I want them all to find success. And so that's that's how I like to allocate my time.

00:45:17:07 - 00:45:57:05
John Azoni
That's awesome. And I would love to have worked for your your team. You know, again, you know, coming out of college and my first, you know, you know, step into social media and content creation and stuff like that, you just seemed like a really just a solid leader. Not only a solid leader, but like just a mentor, you know, to because I think people I think, you know, I have experiences in the past where you you want you want the person above you to know where you want to go, but you don't want them to feel like or to assume that you've you're not interested in the job that you're doing.

00:45:57:08 - 00:46:11:15
John Azoni
All right. And so I think I think it's great that just, you know, you kind of have that future vision for for your team and and you expect them to to grow and for some grow out of their role and do bigger things. So I love that.

00:46:12:16 - 00:46:47:21
Nikki Sunstrum
Thank you. Yeah, that's the benefit. If you think about generational stereotype. So that's the benefit, I think of millennials moving into leadership positions. We have since the beginning of our professional careers, never really looked at or had the opportunity for engine level roles within organizations. I've never been on a 30 year one organizational journey and using that insight and knowledge I typically anticipate within a social media role I have somebody for 3 to 5 years, and that's probably it.

00:46:48:14 - 00:46:54:08
Nikki Sunstrum
So let's make it the last 3 to 5 years that I can for both you and for wherever you go in the future.

00:46:55:09 - 00:47:02:23
John Azoni
Very cool. Yeah. Awesome. This has been super great having you on. You're very articulate about that, I can tell you.

00:47:03:00 - 00:47:06:07
Nikki Sunstrum
Do you?

00:47:06:07 - 00:47:13:15
John Azoni
So where can people connect with you and how can people work with you if they want to have you come speak or whatever? Consult.

00:47:13:18 - 00:47:49:05
Nikki Sunstrum
Oh, phenomenal. Thank you. Connecting with me on LinkedIn is always a great place, right? The one social media network I still fairly actively maintain, but I also have a website wiki function dot com. I do consult on the site and I'm always looking for phenomenal opportunities to add value to various brands or people. And so that's a great way to connect with and to if you're looking for some of that travel content or to see those six kids into grandkids, you can find me on both TikTok and Instagram as well under the same name.

00:47:49:05 - 00:47:49:21
Nikki Sunstrum
Nikki Sunshine.

00:47:51:03 - 00:47:54:05
John Azoni
Cool. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it, Nikki.

00:47:55:02 - 00:47:56:21
Nikki Sunstrum
Of course. Thank you, John. Have a great day.