Higher Ed Storytelling University

00:00:00:08 - 00:00:26:08
John Azoni
This episode is sponsored by the Inner Circle Studio. It's a great space here in Clarkston, Michigan. If you ever want or need to record a podcast. Tik Tok Content or anything like that. Super slick, ready made environments. So we are here kind of doing something a little different today, filming in this in this environment. So I've got my guest here, Robert Lee.

00:00:26:08 - 00:00:49:23
John Azoni
Robert is the co-founder and owner of University FM, the Higher Ed Podcast Agency. He's also the founder of Professors FM, a podcast network making Sense of the World with top scholars. His journey in audio storytelling began as a DJ at the University of Michigan's radio station, and he now partners with higher ed teams to elevate the voices of their institutions.

00:00:50:00 - 00:00:51:21
John Azoni
So welcome to the show, Robert.

00:00:52:10 - 00:01:05:17
Robert Li
John I'm really, really glad to be here. I've been following this show for a while now. I'm really excited just seeing how you grow and really, you know, take some notes here and there about how you do things so common aspiration. So a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

00:01:05:19 - 00:01:23:10
John Azoni
Yeah, we're doing this in person and we got access to this really cool studio because Robert actually we realized we live like 15 minutes from each other. Yeah, we connected on LinkedIn and I feel like we were like LinkedIn friends for a few months, and then you're like, Wait a minute, you live like, for the thing.

00:01:23:13 - 00:01:32:14
Robert Li
The thing is that your LinkedIn, it doesn't say Metro Detroit. It says like Rochester Hills. Yeah, I Rochester as a that's exactly where I'm from. So I had to see it because we both working here.

00:01:32:22 - 00:01:33:04
John Azoni
Yeah.

00:01:33:22 - 00:01:37:22
Robert Li
It's just a coincidence. And I'm glad we we know each other.

00:01:37:22 - 00:01:51:11
John Azoni
Rochester Hills must be it must be a hotbed for for talent. I was on Upwork looking for an animator for a video project, and it was like, cast to, you know, anyone around the world. And I got this one. I'm like, Oh, I like her work. I look, she lives in Rochester Hills.

00:01:52:01 - 00:02:02:04
Robert Li
But yeah, there's there's a lot of intel around here. But I say, General, for just Michigan as a whole, building like in Michigan is like a place for creatives, but definitely.

00:02:02:11 - 00:02:19:01
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. All right, so let's start with a little icebreaker. So tell me something that people make these a lot of people know you. So I feel like I feel like we have a lot of mutual friends on LinkedIn. But tell me something that people might be surprised to know about you.

00:02:20:07 - 00:02:40:16
Robert Li
Well, I was going to say, you know, triathlons, you know, I do triathlons, but I think a more fun one would be recently the past two months, I've gone to birdwatching. So a friend of mine, high school and college Buddy, is really into it. He took me out one time. We were in California. I don't think much of it just birdwatching by is really an amazing experience.

00:02:41:05 - 00:02:59:10
Robert Li
So first place we went, it was in Boca Chica in Los Angeles area, and they just have these amazing bird. They see birds, and one of them is the the brown pelican. All right. I don't know if you know what this this place is really big. And when it flies, it's really majestic and it looks like a Boeing 747.

00:02:59:16 - 00:03:19:06
Robert Li
Wow. But yeah, brown, brown pelican birds and somehow bird watching how I describe it to people is like if you wear glasses the first time you wear glasses and look at like the leaves on trees, they're so crisp and so amazing, like all 4k And similarly, when you look at birds via binoculars, it's just really mesmerizing, just watching it fly around.

00:03:20:07 - 00:03:25:01
Robert Li
So that's my little thing that that people know about. Like I am into Uber Wash right now.

00:03:25:02 - 00:03:40:06
John Azoni
That's awesome. Bird watching my, my grandparents in there and their house, like, had little binoculars we would like we would look out the window and they had like a little like poster that identified all the birds. Yeah, sure. I'd find all of them. Yeah, it was fun. But you do triathlons.

00:03:40:09 - 00:04:03:14
Robert Li
Yeah. Triathlon. So I. That's the Kobe hobby. So it did. That's like two, three years ago. And I, I am not so good at running part but everything else and pretty good result. Yeah. And for me I think why I gravitate towards it is because I love the challenge of it and how I approach life generally is okay.

00:04:03:14 - 00:04:14:13
Robert Li
Whatever the challenges, I know I'll get there and I'll finish. Maybe I won't be the fastest, right? Me I'll get there like the way I intended to by not finish. Cool. It's like a way of training my mentality.

00:04:14:21 - 00:04:42:14
John Azoni
Yeah. My my favorite, like, subreddit to follow is premature celebration. And there's this one that came out recently where a guy is finishing his first in the triathlon and he's like, running up from the beach, about to cross the finish line. And he, like, raises his hand to like, like celebrate like no one. And he trips right at the finish line and and then like eight people pass him and he just.

00:04:42:19 - 00:04:46:13
Robert Li
Hey, I mean, I still that's still top ten. Still top ten. Still top ten. Something to.

00:04:46:13 - 00:04:46:23
John Azoni
Be proud.

00:04:46:23 - 00:04:47:16
Robert Li
Of. Yeah.

00:04:47:20 - 00:04:54:22
John Azoni
I can't imagine doing anything for that long. And then not not getting, you know, whatever first place or whatever.

00:04:55:00 - 00:04:57:05
Robert Li
There's some lesson there. Don't celebrate too early. Yes.

00:04:57:05 - 00:05:12:14
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. Okay. So people, you know, generally know you from University FM. You work with a lot of schools around the around the U.S. for people who don't know what that is. So just give us a little primer on what you guys do for universities.

00:05:13:05 - 00:05:18:23
Robert Li
Yeah, So kind of like we said in the initial intro, University of them is the Higher Ed podcast agency.

00:05:19:09 - 00:05:19:12
John Azoni
Right?

00:05:19:14 - 00:05:23:20
Robert Li
Yeah. I mean, I think we're the only one that's only higher ed and I don't know.

00:05:23:20 - 00:05:24:11
John Azoni
Of any others.

00:05:24:11 - 00:05:48:12
Robert Li
So this is our space. There's our space and our name is pretty good for, you know, for sure it is a podcast agency, so we do four things at a high level. So it's the strategy for podcasts, the production itself, the marketing for it, and then the motivation to help show self fun really quick, like we started about five years ago and at that time.

00:05:48:12 - 00:06:12:06
Robert Li
So I was a deejay at the University of Michigan and my co-founder, my brother Sean, he was a student at UC Berkeley and he took a different path, but he also started doing podcasts on my podcast, and that's kinda birth of this company. As we started realizing, Hey, there is a lot of great stories on a college campus and let's use podcasts to elevate those voices, right?

00:06:12:06 - 00:06:17:20
Robert Li
So from students to alumni to presidents to faculties like professors.

00:06:18:13 - 00:06:25:04
John Azoni
That's awesome. Very cool. So there are a lot of higher ed podcasts. Would you agree?

00:06:25:20 - 00:06:26:08
Robert Li
I agree.

00:06:26:19 - 00:06:32:09
John Azoni
I mean, so give us a give us a lay of the land kind of of the the current state of higher ed podcasts.

00:06:32:17 - 00:07:04:18
Robert Li
Yeah, well, I'd say so. When we first started focusing more in this area, it was during COVID and during COVID, lots of lost university history podcasts because we're looking at ways to engage communities in virtual environments, right, And international audiences as well. And so there is this like bursts in podcasts during the COVID years. And then a lot of them appeared out primarily for for two reasons.

00:07:04:18 - 00:07:23:12
Robert Li
One, either to kind of keep up the production of the show itself, or second, when they started a podcast, they didn't have a clear vision for it. So sometimes or so, like today, oftentimes when people start podcasts, the kind of approach of a mindset of, Hey, let's interview somebody and maybe somebody more famous or more well known, and I'll just get a show started.

00:07:23:23 - 00:07:53:19
Robert Li
But really, if you don't have like a clear vision for the show, that also implies you don't know who your target audiences, you'll know why mystery exists. And and so you just slowly get less interested in motivate to do it. So you know big burst during COVID years and then you know a lot of them stopped but since then, maybe like in the past year, this year, gradually some more podcasts coming up from higher ed space and real podcasts.

00:07:53:19 - 00:08:24:17
Robert Li
Talk about the industry as a whole podcast just for the university, a slight increase in podcasts or like a lot new, a lot of new classes, podcast classes for students. So some may say it's oversaturated, but my, my take on this is that the either like quality wise a lot of shows out there, but you can definitely stick out from the herd if you have, you know, a clear vision and you have clear kind of strategy and production values.

00:08:25:04 - 00:08:45:11
John Azoni
I think it is saturated, but but if you're thinking about it like, you know, every university should have an Instagram account, you know, or, you know, someplace where they're publishing content that a prospective student can go on there and get a sense for what that experience would be like going to that school. You know, I think having a podcast is kind of the same thing.

00:08:45:11 - 00:09:06:17
John Azoni
It's not you're not necessarily competing with like the Joe Rogan's of the world. Yeah, it's higher ed still still a pretty niche thing. And you know, a university podcast probably serves a very specific interest in a specific audience too, where you're not competing with all these other, you know, flood the flood of podcasts.

00:09:06:17 - 00:09:40:18
Robert Li
Yeah, I mean, you can definitely carve out your own space. And I think podcasts as a medium are not sells to like more natural niche communities. And when I say news, I don't mean necessarily mean small, I just mean like focus. You can really targets that people are going for and build community around this show. But I'd say in my knowledge when I look at the majority of hire a podcast, not many people do that so well and maybe it's in connection with colleges, you know, how they define or how well they define their own like institutional community.

00:09:40:18 - 00:09:56:07
Robert Li
Right? In some ways, sure. Like, yeah, you should have lots of universities have their own Instagram accounts, all stories have their own podcasts. But I think it comes down to when you do this, do you have a clear vision for trying to achieve what this tool.

00:09:57:01 - 00:10:15:14
John Azoni
Right? Yeah, And I think there's a good opportunity and I think you would agree for scholarly podcasts within universities. Is there some some good ones out there? I mean, if people are people are listening to this little episode that came out last week was Kate Young from This is Purdue. Yeah.

00:10:15:16 - 00:10:16:00
Robert Li
Okay.

00:10:16:09 - 00:10:27:23
John Azoni
Yeah, yeah. She was fun. We actually talked a lot about well, we were for people that weren't part of the conversation before we started recording, we were talking about Love is Blind. Yeah. So Kate and I talked quite a bit about Love is blind.

00:10:27:23 - 00:10:28:20
Robert Li
Oh, she's a big fan.

00:10:28:20 - 00:10:29:04
John Azoni
Yeah.

00:10:29:21 - 00:10:30:07
Robert Li
Okay.

00:10:31:04 - 00:10:46:15
John Azoni
So but yeah, the research series for this is Purdue, so that's kind of a high level. One other opportunities for those kind of research podcasts. But what, what, what, what are your thoughts on these like scholarly kind of research themed podcasts where they fit in?

00:10:46:23 - 00:11:14:04
Robert Li
So it's also really quick, you know, when I think about higher podcast. So I grouped in certain categories. So like you have your student podcast, the shows are hosted and created by students come with a learning experience. You have your alumni podcasts, very focused alumni engagements, kind of the basement side, like more nostalgia factor, right? You have like President podcast releases your podcasts, which are more sharing the the mission of this tuition right as a whole.

00:11:14:22 - 00:11:52:02
Robert Li
And then you have this like research scholarly podcast side. So for us as a company, you know, just end of last year, we started focusing more in the scholarly podcasting side because we started realizing in our shows there's just a much higher potential for scholarly podcasts. So I mean, why that like a scholarly podcast me is a show hosted by a scholar and whatever research to talk them out or whatever their subject or teases in, they can make it relatable to what's happening in the world today in a much broader context, right?

00:11:52:02 - 00:12:15:19
Robert Li
Whereas like alumni podcast, the example very constrained, like the people who are. No, I like the University of Michigan alone, a podcast that's just geared towards the University of Michigan alumni. I don't think Michigan State alumni will listen to a podcast, right. But say there's like a a scholar at University Michigan, maybe talking specifically about the like cultural marketing.

00:12:16:02 - 00:12:40:07
Robert Li
Right. Okay. This is interesting. It goes outside the realm of or the you know, the walls of the university itself. And you can make that really interesting just about current events. So I think a scholarly podcast are are definitely in my mind and this is a, this is how I think about them. Like they're in a gem of research communications.

00:12:40:17 - 00:12:55:22
Robert Li
And in that way a really valuable tool for branding, right? Because if you can elevate the research that your institution's doing, you can elevate your scholars. Okay, yeah, totally. People are going to pay more attention to your institution.

00:12:56:08 - 00:13:14:16
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. And I, I've been, you know, saying on this podcast a lot recently that just creating content that's like relevant to like real world problems that like you're, you're sort of, you know, marrying the brand with, with what's happening in our culture.

00:13:14:18 - 00:13:15:01
Robert Li
Yeah.

00:13:15:17 - 00:13:40:13
John Azoni
And, and, and talking about the research around that, I think that's really influential. You know I can think of one example from from you know my clients conversations I've had was a student that I was we were doing a pre-interview for her and I was like, you know, she she went to she's alumni for University of Chicago. I was like, Why did you decide to go study data science that you Chicago?

00:13:41:01 - 00:14:03:04
John Azoni
She's like, Well, I read Freakonomics and that author is a professor there. So I thought, That must be a good school. I'll go there. I mean, like, if you can like, if you can, like, bottle that up, you know, that and, and, and really execute that. And that can be a really strong, you know, draw for people who are listening to that.

00:14:03:04 - 00:14:30:21
Robert Li
Yeah, absolutely Like so the two co authors that book. DUBNER And. LEVITT So, I mean, I see economics myself at the University of Michigan, but I applied to Chicago. I remember doing that just because I read Freakonomics, right? Yeah. And so there's a there's a dark connection behind the scholarly podcast and the brand value that they can provide, like, like another big show in the space or probably the biggest scholarly podcast right now will be Andrew Schumann's Human Lab.

00:14:31:09 - 00:14:56:13
Robert Li
So he's if you don't know, he's a professor over at Stanford University in their School of Medicine, right? And like that show, like per episode they get at least a million and that's just audio and like not even including the video side right? And it's insane. And those episodes are also like 2 to 4 hours long. You know, people really listen to the entire thing as well.

00:14:57:11 - 00:15:08:01
Robert Li
And to your point, I'm sure you know people who listen to him in the lab. So there might be wine to go study at Stanford University just because of this show.

00:15:08:01 - 00:15:31:11
John Azoni
Mm hmm. So I would imagine that's true When I go look for a podcast to to consume, usually it's in my car or something. I'll just listen to the audio. Number one, I'm looking at what's the problem that this episode is solving? I'm not necessarily looking at who the guest speaker, but is it irrelevant problem in my business that I want insight on how to solve?

00:15:31:18 - 00:15:56:12
John Azoni
But then too, is it long enough? You know, because like if it's if it's like 20 minutes or less, I'm less likely to listen to that because I want it to last my whole car ride or my whole walk around the neighborhood, you drive a lot. Yeah. And I want to sink into something. And I think that that we don't give enough credit to like when the content is good.

00:15:56:12 - 00:16:20:11
John Azoni
It's just make it however long it needs to be. You know, it's it's but like I think I think you know we we let link could be the enemy of of of good content and artificially you know choke down you know the runtime of something because we think that people want I mean if someone's going to listen to a 20 minute podcast the PRI listened to an hour you know but but what do you think?

00:16:20:11 - 00:16:23:12
John Azoni
Like make somebody listen to something that long? 2 to 4 hours. That's a lot.

00:16:23:16 - 00:16:46:21
Robert Li
Well, this is this is a very common question. I get from people, which is how long should I make my show? And they're like, most shows are in this like 20 to 35 minute range. And people think it's that range because it's based off of the average commute time that someone takes the United States. Right? And then, yeah, of course, every show is are like less than 10 minutes.

00:16:46:22 - 00:17:12:19
Robert Li
Right. So there's more like news oriented events based and your shows are like hour plus. Right. Too. We were saying earlier I, I don't think or implied this way the more important factor for someone listening to the entire episode there's not time it's more so the content itself right and how well relates to whoever the listener is and are they taking something away as they listen.

00:17:13:13 - 00:17:34:08
Robert Li
So so your question for these episodes are like two, 4 hours long. And if I was to use like your real life example again, like it's all research these talking about so why does somebody listen to two, 4 hours of research? What makes them do that like this insane? Because you would never I would never read like an hour off of research paper personally, Right?

00:17:34:08 - 00:18:13:00
Robert Li
It's and I think it's because it comes back to this reliability factor because how human does it is here he takes the key insights from research and communicates communicates them in a way that the average listener can actually action on it. Right. Or just think about it a little bit more deeply. Right. So there's some there's some aspect of this conversational tone of how the research is shared, and that goes for these like two, four hour long episodes.

00:18:13:00 - 00:18:41:01
Robert Li
And also for even the three minute episodes, just really research, right? Like the the more you can make it accessible, the better, and kind of ties in with a strong concept of public scholarship, which is a term that I don't think people outside of higher ed would know. But before you, if you don't know the scholarship, it's just really the idea of how do you communicate research in a way that's accessible so that people in the general public can use it?

00:18:41:20 - 00:19:00:01
John Azoni
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, think about like the things that I studying are. I like reading studies on storytelling, like the science of storytelling and stuff like that. But admittedly, like these studies, you know, you get the I don't know, what do you call it? It's like in a formal, you know, it's like an abstract and then there's like.

00:19:00:01 - 00:19:00:14
Robert Li
White paper.

00:19:00:14 - 00:19:23:19
John Azoni
Thing. Yeah, well, in and I'm like, oh my gosh, like, like what's I'm just like, scroll. What's the conclusion? You know, give me the CliffsNotes. Yeah, but I'll read books on storytelling that, that are, you know, long books and, and because that's more conversational, not conversational, but it's more, you know, just down to earth and yeah, less academic speak.

00:19:24:11 - 00:19:29:00
John Azoni
And so I would totally listen to 2 to 3 or 4 hours of a storytelling podcast.

00:19:29:00 - 00:19:54:18
Robert Li
Yeah. I mean, that's why for me, like scholarly podcasts or the hidden gem of research communications, because I think just by the nature of the podcast, that's inquiry led the conversational aspect invites a like human centered storytelling and as niche so that if even if you're doing a very specific piece of research out of mean, you say like I'm private equity markets, right?

00:19:54:18 - 00:20:20:19
Robert Li
Like you can find your people, right, with the right podcasts. Mm hmm. To me, part of this is I, I think there's there's more potential, right, for scholarly podcasts. Yeah. Share research, you know, bolster the brand of institutions and like, deepen the relationship and trust between the communicators of higher ed communicators and the faculty side.

00:20:21:00 - 00:20:26:10
John Azoni
Yeah. So yeah so what do you think people are craving, you know, out of a research podcast?

00:20:27:14 - 00:20:55:07
Robert Li
It's interesting is the word crave So, you know, as I was researching the human lab because there's also opposed, oh, hey, like you trust you trust this guy. I was like one of those reaction videos, right? And the comments on these videos or as a somebody was saying, people are going through the entire episode. You know, they're really a starving for real information now in terms of how you how you want.

00:20:56:02 - 00:21:07:12
Robert Li
But in this context, probably just talking about it in this age, there's a lot of health, misinformation that's going around. Right. Or just, you know, people saying things that maybe are substantiated. Right.

00:21:07:23 - 00:21:09:19
John Azoni
There's none of that in the political sphere.

00:21:10:05 - 00:21:46:04
Robert Li
No. So people crave real information. And I think that's true. Right. Just by seeing the the growth of your podcasts and some other scholarly podcasts and even just like research shows in general that feature professors and lecturers, there's a you know, to me there's a, there's a very, very, uh, big space that's suitable for scholars to fill. Scholars spent a lot of time researching a very specific piece of knowledge.

00:21:46:04 - 00:22:05:10
Robert Li
They know what they're talking about. So as you know, institution, higher ed communicator, why not look deeper into using podcasts to leverage the talent that exists within your university or college? Mm hmm. So that's why I think it's going. Podcasts get used to be more of them for sure.

00:22:05:17 - 00:22:32:16
John Azoni
And how how would you like, on a practical level, how would you advise that schools implement this? Is it like, you know, their star professor at one of their star professors would have their own podcast or maybe there's multiple faculty, they each have their own podcast, or is it one podcast for the university that has different guests talking about different different research projects, like maybe both or all of the above, But.

00:22:32:16 - 00:22:54:03
Robert Li
So I'm going to raise questions more like a podcast structure in a way. So I think my, my go to would be to have a single host who is a scholar and the single host approach because it's much easier to connect with a person than like a general brand. And I think we have a consistent host over and over again.

00:22:54:03 - 00:23:13:21
Robert Li
You really learn to trust that person over time. I see Miles work, of course, for like, you know, of co-hosts, but still consistent. So that's good. Then there's some models of like rotational hosts which which is doable. And, you know, there's some successful examples of them. But I think that just makes a little harder to build a trust element over time.

00:23:14:09 - 00:23:45:00
Robert Li
Mm hmm. Yeah. So I you know, from from that angle, I recommend kind of looking at it from a individual level. First of all, to take this question a little further, you know, meta like, you know, I think about, you know, why aren't there more scholarly podcasts in the world? And I think there's two big reasons. One is this production side, like, okay, for like a more com team perspective, do you have the capacity to support more than one show or even one show fully?

00:23:46:04 - 00:24:09:10
Robert Li
And then the second aspect is this potential misalignment between the goals of scholars and the goals of the communicators. So I'm going to skip that first one and just focus on Psych one right now. So I think for hire communicators, when you we hear things like, Oh yeah, you can have millions of people listen episode or you're like hundreds, right?

00:24:09:10 - 00:24:32:13
Robert Li
Because that's, that's still pretty good too. That, that makes a lot of sense. Okay. You have all talent on campus, okay? That makes more sense. Hey, like it's it's part of your role to to to share research. Okay, this all makes sense. Let's let's do more solo podcasts. I think from a scholar side, there's some real, you know, hesitations.

00:24:32:13 - 00:24:57:09
Robert Li
You know, one like if you don't have that much media experience, there's some, you know, natural hesitancy around, okay, what happens that I get wrong, right? Or this this aspect of, you know, what's what's in it for me? Like to me, I think from our experience, there's a lot of great researchers, lots of great scholars, but there's not.

00:24:57:16 - 00:25:02:00
Robert Li
But that does not necessarily mean that they're great communicators, right?

00:25:02:03 - 00:25:03:02
John Azoni
So that's true.

00:25:03:10 - 00:25:29:16
Robert Li
Overall, there's there's some aspects of just how do you make it easier for scholars to engage in POC in the podcast world? And I think there's two routes. You know, one is for the scholars to actually have their own show. The other is kind of this more like podcast guessing strategy, right? And yeah, it's the ideal show all I'll say this way, I think it's probably easier to start with a guessing side.

00:25:29:16 - 00:25:56:19
Robert Li
Just get a feel for it. Yeah right. And just sit down. Fi Okay. Based on what my current research is, here are some specific shows that I should be pitched on. Right? And then I think as you do more and more interviews on podcasts, yeah, you're more comfortable, you get more of flow. You you kind of go through iterations of how to communicate your ideas more clearly for people who are not, you know, who are not experts in what you're studying, right?

00:25:56:21 - 00:26:08:05
Robert Li
Who are not like pure academics. And I think from there then you could probably tell whether or not or decide whether or not you should have your own show. Right. Or if you want to have your own show.

00:26:08:18 - 00:26:18:22
John Azoni
Yeah. And I would imagine, you know, scholarly individuals or professors are pretty probably pretty good at talking.

00:26:19:11 - 00:26:20:08
Robert Li
You know, So good.

00:26:20:13 - 00:26:48:15
John Azoni
Yeah. Yeah. But they might not maybe they don't want, you know, to be front and center or something. But I find, you know, it's, it's very different like than, than a how we might be wired personality wise because I'm very introverted. Um, and like any opportunity, you know, to like, go to a party or something, I'm like, I'm not sure I want to, but like, so it seems weird.

00:26:48:15 - 00:27:07:16
John Azoni
Like I, you know, I talk to people almost every day on this podcast and, you know, and I made it work, you know, for myself. So really, really like what was once intimidating for me. Like because when I started unveiled, I was like, I'm not doing a podcast because I've I've seen, you know, people doing before. I'm like, That sounds exhausting.

00:27:07:16 - 00:27:39:01
John Azoni
Like talking to people, you know, for like talking someone for like an hour, you know? But just, just kind of dipping my toes in the water. I'm like, oh, it's actually kind of fun. Like, it's it's and it's doable, you know? It's it's it's really it doesn't have to be that intimidating and I think that I think we really overcomplicate podcasts because there's so many, like extracurricular things that you can do with a podcast, you know, with hosting sites, you know, breaking things up into smaller content, you know, distribution, all this stuff.

00:27:39:01 - 00:27:54:08
John Azoni
It really just comes down to like having an interesting conversation or just writing an interesting script and reading, you know, reading it or, you know, if you if you can do that in a conversational way, I would say probably not a good idea to just read off of a piece of paper. Very good at that.

00:27:54:08 - 00:28:22:16
Robert Li
But that's just acting by that point. Yeah, but it can be easy to overcomplicate podcasts. I just think as core, as long as you're very clear with who you're trying to talk to or talk with and you have a clear vision for like what success means to you, which me not being high downloads, I just like, you know, really high Allison theory or like just people reaching out to you to be guests, right?

00:28:24:03 - 00:28:44:21
Robert Li
And that and a third party here, you know, if you're very in tune with who you are, who you are as a person, so you're not you'll feel like you're acting it just more as raw in a sense, but more real. I think it's more real and okay. I mean, those those are three ingredients for a good podcast.

00:28:45:11 - 00:28:57:19
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. So tell us about tell us a little bit more like about professors I find. Like what how do you envision partnering with schools? How is that different from university?

00:28:57:20 - 00:29:25:14
Robert Li
FM Yeah, so University of FM is the podcast agency and Mean I production marketing support wise professors that firm as a podcast network. So it is a collection of scholar houses, shows all, you know, kind of pure community covering different academic fields. So right now we're starting with more business oriented shows where next would be like science technology.

00:29:25:22 - 00:29:53:19
Robert Li
After that, probably arts and or the arts. The arts. And our vision for this is for all these shows to support each other with like audience growth. And also, you know, this this aspect of helping the shows grow to a point where they can have sponsorships and sell funds so they can just be continuous. The mission of the network, we're all set.

00:29:53:19 - 00:30:22:20
Robert Li
It's like, why? Why do we make it right? One reason is just because, yeah, we recognize that scholarly podcasts at a much higher potential than other types of shows. And there's a there's a need for this type of show for me, more personally, I think it'd be fantastic for these conversations, for these research, like conversations to get to public discourse, inspire more thoughtful discussion.

00:30:22:23 - 00:30:53:06
Robert Li
Mm hmm. And and for research have a bigger impact in the real world. Like, it'd be amazing to me if, you know, professors, that becomes a place where people go to for accurate relevance and interesting information, and that fuels conversation with their friends or colleagues and it's all, you know, backed by some research, Right. Is more substance based.

00:30:53:16 - 00:30:56:01
Robert Li
Mm hmm. That'd be really, really awesome.

00:30:56:19 - 00:31:05:23
John Azoni
Why So the question that once you get into doing a podcast that people might be asking is, why should I join a network?

00:31:06:08 - 00:31:06:16
Robert Li
Yeah.

00:31:07:03 - 00:31:34:01
John Azoni
I know I've asked that question for myself. You know, this podcast part of the Head Up Experience network and it's been great. Like just like the collaboration with, with other hosts, everyone just kind of wrapping each other's shows and sharing ideas back and forth, like with our with the network that this we're part of, we have an ongoing like LinkedIn group chat, which is awesome.

00:31:34:01 - 00:31:50:02
John Azoni
People just asking questions all day long and just it's just like a total ongoing kind of conversation of people just like helping each other out. So, yeah, you know, with that in mind, like what four professors I found, like, why, why would a scholarly podcast, like, want to join a network?

00:31:50:02 - 00:32:31:15
Robert Li
Yeah, well, I think like from one very tackle standpoint, it is the audience growth is identifying shows that have shared audiences or like culinary audiences is where if one were to collaborate with the other, they both benefit from it. I think the other important aspect is this pure community, so pure scholars going through the exact same podcasting, I guess, growth, right this journey, there's other questions that have come up and it's helpful to know that, okay, someone who is working on this very similar space has gone through is you can ask him for advice.

00:32:33:05 - 00:32:59:23
Robert Li
As a network, we or our goal is make it easier for scholars engaged in podcasting. And so one aspect of that is, sure, okay, we can help with production and marketing. There's other aspect of this for like media training, right? Like guest placement. So for those who are newer to the space, the way I see it's like the path to be okay.

00:33:00:10 - 00:33:24:13
Robert Li
Even we have had no no like media experience in the past. You can go through some training. We'll help you get placed on podcast, make sense for you, you know, get some reps in for interviews, kind of refining, refining how you talk about your research or work and at some point, hey, yeah, if it makes sense and you really want to go all in on podcasting.

00:33:24:13 - 00:33:26:13
Robert Li
Sure. Let's, let's explore having your own show.

00:33:26:21 - 00:33:27:06
John Azoni
Mm hmm.

00:33:27:15 - 00:33:27:23
Robert Li
Yeah.

00:33:28:01 - 00:34:03:16
John Azoni
Yeah. That's the media training, too, is. That's a big one. You know, gives I think you, you learn after you guest on your first podcast, it's like, oh I should have done this differently or said it this way instead, or introduce myself in this way or But yeah, I think that's cool. That's really cool. What you guys, what you guys are helping schools with because it's such a wrap around like comprehensive I mean with the, with the University of Hand side of things such a comprehensive service and then and then to extend that into a very catered like network that's all helping each other out.

00:34:03:16 - 00:34:10:13
John Azoni
It's like I love that you're just kind of expanding this, this whirlpool of value, you know, for universities.

00:34:11:12 - 00:34:45:14
Robert Li
Yeah. And, and the way the way I see it or like, why, why I do is work is really to support the why. I think it's the purpose of education. And I think like through sharing this research and approachable ways by helping more scholars elevate their voice the, the value of education, higher education can be, you know, can can reach much more people.

00:34:45:14 - 00:35:06:00
Robert Li
Right. This whole idea of, hey, you're learning this information in order to understand the world around you. Yeah. And that's that's why I do this work, right? To again, elevate these scholarly voices so more people can understand the world around them and ask more questions.

00:35:07:01 - 00:35:27:10
John Azoni
Yeah. Awesome. Well, I can say, you know, Robert, you know, speaking to my audience here, Robert has been a really great friend as a fellow podcaster. I mean, I've I've gotten a lot, you know, we message back and forth on LinkedIn about, you know, questions and helping each other out and and even just that has been has been helpful.

00:35:27:10 - 00:35:38:16
John Azoni
So Robert's cool guy. I think you should connect with him. If people wanted to connect with a cool guy, how would they connect with you and University of FM professors? I FM It's.

00:35:38:17 - 00:35:41:07
Robert Li
A shy endorsement. Robert is a cool guy.

00:35:41:15 - 00:35:43:15
John Azoni
John has.

00:35:43:15 - 00:36:05:17
Robert Li
But I can I can be reached via the website, which is University FM or professors from in my my email is just Robert at university Dias and you can find me LinkedIn so and I'm pretty sure if you if you Google my name Robert Lee especially if you had Robert Lee Michigan, you'll find me. Okay. That's the easiest.

00:36:05:17 - 00:36:17:06
John Azoni
Way. Yeah. Awesome. Cool man. Well, thanks for being here. This is this is a great conversation. I'm super excited for people to learn about professors of found and hopefully get involved.

00:36:17:17 - 00:36:30:15
Robert Li
Yeah, they'll be really awesome. And even if you're just going to be a listener, please go check out the show's websites live. We have shows on there right now, all top scholars from these institutions, and they're all really, really fascinating.

00:36:31:03 - 00:36:32:18
John Azoni
Cool. All right. Thanks.

00:36:33:12 - 00:36:33:21
Robert Li
Thanks, John.