Higher Ed Storytelling University

00:00:00:05 - 00:00:13:10
John Azoni
My guest today is Jess Cook. Jess is the head of content and Comms at Island and co-host of a very good podcast called That's Marketing Baby. So, Jess, welcome to the show.

00:00:14:06 - 00:00:16:02
Jess Cook
Thanks, John. This is so exciting.

00:00:17:00 - 00:00:34:19
John Azoni
Yeah. So for a super pumped to have you on and I became aware of you maybe, I don't know, six or eight months ago through a previous guest that was on our show, Justin Simon. Since then, I will. I haven't told you this, but I will tell you, in all honesty, you are my number one favorite follow on LinkedIn.

00:00:35:21 - 00:00:45:09
John Azoni
In terms of like. Yeah, in terms of just like every post of yours, I'm like, Oh, that's so good. I'm like, I have so many of yours saved.

00:00:45:13 - 00:00:46:10
Jess Cook
That's awesome.

00:00:46:23 - 00:01:08:12
John Azoni
Yeah. So for people listening, you know, Jess comes from the B2B world. So outside of Higher Ed this episode, we're going to talk a little more kind of from a B2B perspective. But I love following Jess on LinkedIn because everything like she talks about, I can just kind of translate into what we do in Higher ed and it's a very seamless transition.

00:01:08:12 - 00:01:11:18
John Azoni
So. So yeah, super pumped to have you here.

00:01:12:13 - 00:01:20:11
Jess Cook
That's awesome. So, so I'm so thankful to be here. You and I have been chatting for a while now, so this is this is really cool. Full circle.

00:01:20:11 - 00:01:49:05
John Azoni
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I did. I did pay for, like, a mentoring session with with Jess. And so if you've gotten like, mid funnel content for me, like a little more salesy, you can blame Jess. Yeah, but it's working. It's. It's been, it's been. It's been working. Okay, cool. So tell us a little bit about Island, because I don't think my audience probably knows what that is.

00:01:50:01 - 00:02:15:20
Jess Cook
Yeah, that's okay, because I didn't know what it was either. There are still days like, do I know what this is? So Island is the enterprise browser. And you know, every day we go to work and most of us open up some sort of browser, Chrome or edge or Mozilla. And, you know, we go about our work. But those browsers were meant for consumer usage.

00:02:15:20 - 00:02:38:07
Jess Cook
They were not meant for enterprise work. And because that's just kind of the way things went. Our security teams and our I.T. teams have had to build a ton of infrastructure on top of those consumer browsers to make them safe, to make it so that the data doesn't leak out. You know, that's proprietary to your company, you know, to the open Internet.

00:02:39:06 - 00:02:58:03
Jess Cook
And in doing so, it's slowed down a lot of our productivity. Right. Like now we have to sign in to every little thing. Certain things don't work. Certain websites have to be blocked. We can't do all the things we want to do as quickly as we want to do them some. Some of the applications we have to work with don't actually even use on the browser.

00:02:58:03 - 00:03:28:13
Jess Cook
So now there's another thing we have to let go to. So what island does is it has all of that stuff built into it. So it is a browser, a browser built with the needs of the enterprise inside of it, all of the security, all of the productivity, kind of all of the things that, you know, big companies need middle and big middle and large sized companies need to be productive and to be secure in today's day and age.

00:03:28:13 - 00:03:51:09
Jess Cook
So super fascinating company. Their work. We're building a category. They are the creators of the enterprise browser. There's some kind of starting to pop up around us now, which is great. That's a good sign. Like, competition is actually a good thing. It means that it's a legitimate space. And so, yeah, that has been fun. I've been working to, you know, I'm head of content and comms there.

00:03:51:09 - 00:04:05:05
Jess Cook
So building the category, creating educational content, thought, leadership content. Why is this the best new route to go for for enterprise work? What makes us different? All of that. So really, really exciting challenge.

00:04:05:23 - 00:04:32:04
John Azoni
Cool. And you've you've had a pretty illustrious career in content marketing. I know. I know you've worked with McDonalds. That's the one that comes to mind because I saw something that you posted about something that did or didn't work for McDonalds. Yeah, about calling the coffee like some premium coffee thing. And I was like, So tell me a little bit about like some of the bigger brands that you've worked with and in what capacity.

00:04:32:17 - 00:05:10:00
Jess Cook
Yeah, So kind of the beginning of my career, the first 15 years of my career, I was a copywriter and a creative director on B2C brands on the agency side. So I worked for an arm of Leo BURNETT. If anyone knows Leo BURNETT and some smaller kind of digital agencies that got gobbled up by bigger digital agencies. But some of the brands I've worked on are McDonald's was one I wrote used to write the jokes on the Happy Meal boxes and all of the in-store signage and and copy for billboards and all of that, which was really fun.

00:05:10:20 - 00:05:27:20
Jess Cook
Kellogg is another big one I've worked on. I had a number of accounts on and Kellogg that I worked on, so Rice Krispies and Pop-Tarts and Eggo and Frosted Mini-Wheats and, you know, the odd cereal that launched and that never went anywhere. And then they tried again. Lots of those.

00:05:28:07 - 00:05:28:19
John Azoni
Yeah.

00:05:28:19 - 00:05:54:21
Jess Cook
And Kimberly-Clark was kind of the other big one, so did a lot for Cottonelle toilet paper, which was a lot of fun, as you can imagine. Kotex and some paper towel brands. So yeah, a lot of like consumer packaged goods stuff, but agency world is like crazy. It is great for young, hungry people who are like willing to put their entire life into work.

00:05:54:21 - 00:06:14:20
Jess Cook
And and that was what I did for a long time. But, you know, there came a point where for me, you know, I was we were growing our family and the work life balance just just didn't make sense. So 2019 was actually when I made the jump to B2B and I thought, you know, I have the skill set, the storytelling skill set that I've used on B2C brands.

00:06:15:09 - 00:06:39:20
Jess Cook
I would love to take that in-house somewhere in in tech and kind of try my hand at that. Like take those that same story telling set of skills and like apply that to something more technical and something that we're typically at. The marketing is a little boring or dry and like how what can we do to make it more fun and take some of the things that I've learned on cereal and toilet paper and apply it to software?

00:06:40:15 - 00:07:04:07
John Azoni
Yeah, well, you're in the right spot on a higher ed podcast, which is fraught with boring academics. You know, a lot of what I talk about on the podcast and what my colleagues talk about is like, how do we revive higher ed and bring it more into like 20, 24, you know, and make it make it more relevant and higher.

00:07:04:07 - 00:07:18:09
John Azoni
Ed is historically just so slow moving with adapting to change and things like that. So so yeah, excited to kind of help our audience today, kind of brighten things up a little bit.

00:07:18:23 - 00:07:26:07
Jess Cook
That's definitely some transferable, you know, kind of theories we can talk about for sure.

00:07:26:07 - 00:07:57:20
John Azoni
So we're going to talk today mostly about email, email marketing strategies because that's one of the topics that you're you're well versed in. There's a really good episode on just as podcast, the best marketing, maybe on email, I don't know what it's called or what episode number it was. I just I listened to it. I went on vacation and like, that's how I relax is like I listen to like work stuff that I don't have time to listen to you talk about.

00:07:57:20 - 00:07:58:15
Jess Cook
Why is that?

00:08:00:04 - 00:08:25:03
John Azoni
So there I was walking around South Haven and listen to how to spruce up my email newsletter. So that's a very good that's a very good episode. But so let's see. Tell us tell us a little bit like hone in on your experience with with email marketing. What's been kind of some of the ups and downs that you've experienced with various brands and and things like that?

00:08:25:16 - 00:08:48:00
Jess Cook
Yeah. So I think my experience with email comes because like as the as the content person, a lot of times it's like, you know, the emails contact. So like hand that too content, right? Like that they need to figure out what goes in there. And for a very long time I was using email and creating net new content for that email.

00:08:48:00 - 00:09:17:16
Jess Cook
Like, what can we say in here? You know, we got to be able to say something new and then, you know, kind of using it as like, oh, here's some links to, you know, some stuff they might be able to check out and call it a day. Right? And what I've come to learn is that email is really just one of your best distribution channels for all of the content that you already have going on that you can repurpose in some way and deliver value within that that channel.

00:09:18:16 - 00:09:48:22
Jess Cook
And so what I mean by that is for, you know, just take an example at Island just sent out a couple of weeks ago an email prospect newsletter. And so this goes to anyone who's kind of raised their hand and said, like, I'm interested in learning more about Island or the enterprise browser kind of space. And, you know, back long ago I would have taken that email and I would have tried to, you know, write something net new or, you know, go interview someone or, you know, talk and like, what should we put in this email?

00:09:48:22 - 00:10:18:12
Jess Cook
I'm not sure. Right. But now that the email is more of a container for like, okay, what stories are telling already right now we're talking about, you know, the enterprise browser is kind of the missing piece to your cloud journey. That's a big kind of narrative we have going on right now. So we have blog content about that, and I'm taking pieces of that blog content and I'm dropping it right into the email and breaking it up in a way kind of truncating it in a way that makes sense for an email audience where they can read through it and get some value out of it.

00:10:18:12 - 00:10:50:14
Jess Cook
But it's it's just enough for email, right? I am going in and grabbing a video clip that I dropped into social that did particularly well and I'm teasing that out in the email and then having it having people drive to it on a page on our website so they actually land on our website. But for me, the idea of email is like, if I can keep them in email as long as possible and keep them reading and keep them interested, I've done my job and I don't want to.

00:10:50:23 - 00:11:13:12
Jess Cook
This is not quite the this is not what I mean by it. When I say it, I'll explain it. I don't want to waste my time writing a brand new email when I have all this great content already at my disposal that's going out on my blog, that's going out on social that I can repurpose and use in a really smart way to tell the same stories I'm telling everywhere else and deliver that value in the email itself.

00:11:13:12 - 00:11:35:03
Jess Cook
So my time is much more well spent, just kind of taking what I'm already saying elsewhere and using it in that email. And, and a lot of people get like, Ooh, I don't know, are people going get bored of what we're saying? Right? And I find that like people you, we as marketers, we get bored of what we're saying very quickly because we hear it all the time.

00:11:35:03 - 00:11:56:04
Jess Cook
We feel like we're saying the same things over and over, but usually when you're finally, like just so sick of the message is when your audience is actually just starting to pick it up and understand that that's kind of what you stand for. So definitely don't be afraid to like take things you've already said and put them in an in an email for your audience and try to add value for them in that channel.

00:11:57:05 - 00:12:19:07
John Azoni
Yeah, I like what you said about the email being kind of a container for for content, because if, if we're, if we're already creating a lot of content, it's a good place to just kind of collect all of that. And I find to like with I have a lot of fun with my email newsletter that goes out to our marketing directors and things like that at colleges.

00:12:19:12 - 00:12:40:22
John Azoni
And I find because I think like LinkedIn is like my primary channel, but it's not a very fun place. Like LinkedIn is just not very it's just very serious, you know? And there for a while there was LinkedIn had like LinkedIn stories where you could kind of just be a little more, you know, I don't know, down to earth.

00:12:40:22 - 00:13:06:17
John Azoni
And I liked that. And I was bummed when they went away. But but I find that the email is is is kind of, at least for me, kind of a playground to like put things in there that's maybe just a little more off the cuff or like share a few videos that that came across, you know, on like the recent one that went out was on like different strategies for like viral short form videos and stuff like that.

00:13:06:17 - 00:13:27:12
John Azoni
Just just more like just kind of more like fluid kind of communications and just things that are on my mind, you know, that that might be entertaining or whatever. I find email is a place where you can kind of be a little more, a little more fun and yeah, I don't know, that's just been that's just been my experience.

00:13:27:12 - 00:13:38:20
John Azoni
But I think it lends itself to like a lot of different things, not only just pointing out to other content, but also just making the email itself a fun experience.

00:13:39:19 - 00:13:40:13
Jess Cook
Absolutely.

00:13:41:10 - 00:13:57:10
John Azoni
What are some key factors for you that make a successful marketing email? So share service, let's just some some high level points about what are things that people should keep in mind.

00:13:58:07 - 00:14:34:08
Jess Cook
Yeah, so I think maybe 5 to 8 years ago, the most important thing would have been the subject line and we'll get to that. But the most important thing now is actually the frontline. Who is your email coming from? And I know as someone who gets emails from my alma mater, go western Michigan, go Broncos. They're always from, you know, the office of the Dean or they're from the Lee Honors College or, you know, whatever the the alumni association And I immediately sorry Western delete them.

00:14:35:13 - 00:14:36:12
John Azoni
Because.

00:14:37:17 - 00:14:43:05
Jess Cook
I already know what they're going to do. I already know, like in in my mind they're going to ask me for money.

00:14:43:05 - 00:14:43:12
John Azoni
Yeah.

00:14:44:09 - 00:15:07:10
Jess Cook
When it comes from a person within the organization, it feels more personal. There's a bit more intrigue. Why is this person sending me something? Perhaps you've received emails from them in the past where they've not made an ask and you're like, Oh, yeah, okay, I want to. I want to hear what's going on there right? So really, when you're looking at your email program, consider who it should come from.

00:15:07:21 - 00:15:27:20
Jess Cook
It should definitely come from a person, a good spokesperson for, you know, whatever the purpose of the email is, it should come from a good spokesperson for that purpose and that that person may not be the one writing the email. And that's okay. There may be some ghostwriting involved and they'll want to review it to kind of make sure they feel good about putting their name on it.

00:15:28:04 - 00:15:51:06
Jess Cook
But the idea is that you're building trust through a person because, you know, people buy from people they don't they don't buy from an organization per say. So that's the first thing. Try to figure out who who should it come from and really make it come from That person put their name right in the front, put their picture at the bottom, and they're, you know, a little fake signature, right?

00:15:51:06 - 00:16:13:04
Jess Cook
Like, do things to make it feel personal. That is a that's a big one. Second, I think would be the subject line. So something we were doing when I when I got to island in the subject line was like the island insider and then like, you know, the vertical bar and then it would be like, here's everything you need to know about, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:16:13:05 - 00:16:37:03
Jess Cook
Right? And it's like, okay, but no, no one can actually even see past the vertical bar. So you have wasted that precious space on nothing. Right? And I think what you want to do in that subject subject line is really pique someone's curiosity. You want someone to be like, I have to know what this is about, right? So so try to pique someone's curiosity.

00:16:38:02 - 00:16:59:04
Jess Cook
And you know something where it's like, Hey, is this, is this you question mark is like, or is it me? I don't know. I got a C, right? And obviously there's like a line where it's like, well, that feels clickbait. I think the thing that you have to remember is that once someone gets inside the email, there had better be value or something to follow up what you've said in the subject line.

00:16:59:11 - 00:17:35:05
Jess Cook
So those are those are two really, really important pieces for me. I would say the third thing is, and this feels counterintuitive, but your piece at the very bottom, so because now your emails are coming from a person, it feels kind of nice and natural and personal to have a line and that make that your call to action whatever you want someone to do, check out a new program or, you know, hear an alumni story or whatever, whatever the case may be, see our new, you know, our new building on campus.

00:17:36:07 - 00:17:51:11
Jess Cook
That's where that should live. Just test it once or twice and see what happens for whatever reason that that spot is ripe for for clicking to other little pointers that I have. If you if we have time, you think.

00:17:52:02 - 00:17:53:20
John Azoni
Oh, lots of time. Keep going. Okay. Okay.

00:17:54:21 - 00:18:20:18
Jess Cook
So typically you'll put your logo at the very top of your email and typically most companies will link that logo to just their homepage. Right. Which is fine. But what if you're really trying to get someone to do something other than go to your homepage in that email? What if the focus of that email is X? So change up the link of where that logo goes.

00:18:21:21 - 00:18:38:21
Jess Cook
You'll be surprised to see how many people. It's shocking to me because I don't think I've ever maybe I haven't, and I just didn't realize it. But I don't. I did not realize how many people click on that top logo. Have it take them where you want them to take their action interest and the final. Yeah, I know, I know.

00:18:38:21 - 00:18:39:12
Jess Cook
Try it because.

00:18:39:14 - 00:18:57:17
John Azoni
Yeah I wouldn't I don't click on people's logos for sure but by but but that's interesting I mean that's the perfect example of like just because I don't do it doesn't mean you know people I mean if you've ever run like Facebook ads, you'll learn real quick that like, yeah, people don't behave the way that you think they should.

00:18:57:17 - 00:18:58:12
John Azoni
Not at all.

00:18:59:08 - 00:19:27:08
Jess Cook
And usually, like, I'll go back into HubSpot and I'll look at email performance and it's always in the top three clipped things. It's so bizarre to try that. And I would say final thing and I feel like this is this is really important and B2B, I also feel it's really important in higher ed because I think, you know, higher ed is pretty notoriously aggressive for I know as an alumni asking for money, but also like pushing someone to want to enroll or learn more.

00:19:27:08 - 00:19:29:18
Jess Cook
Right. And they have to that's part of the business.

00:19:30:13 - 00:19:31:01
John Azoni
But I would.

00:19:31:12 - 00:19:53:23
Jess Cook
Encourage people not to make an ask every time, because what you're really trying to do is build trust. And when you make an ask every time, the trust just diminishes. And so I would try to, you know, deliver value, deliver value, deliver value, make an ask deliver value, deliver value, make an ask. Right. Really intersperse it so that one, it will it will increase your open rates.

00:19:53:23 - 00:19:59:03
Jess Cook
People won't always feel like they're just trying to get money from me again. They're just trying to get me to, you know, come to their school, whatever.

00:19:59:13 - 00:20:00:05
John Azoni
Yeah, yeah.

00:20:00:21 - 00:20:08:05
Jess Cook
It doesn't feel so frustrating. And, and to when you make the ask now you've built some trust and someone's much more likely to, to say yes.

00:20:09:09 - 00:20:38:00
John Azoni
Yeah. And, and I think that you know it's so like in my, in my newsletter I have a, a little spot where it's just like, hey, if you're new here, like, here's what we do for video for colleges and then a couple of links and then like onward you know. But I think that that like that probably just becomes like a pattern in people's minds where they're just like they've seen it once.

00:20:38:00 - 00:21:06:11
John Azoni
Maybe those skip pass it, they don't even consider it anymore. Or, you know, if you always have the same call to action at the bottom, it's kind of like the bottom stops like right before that, that call to action for them, it's like I'm an only consume the actual value here. But I imagine yeah, like you're saying, letting people get to the bottom, the actual bottom and there's there hasn't been an ask it's just hey this is free, this is just good value for you.

00:21:06:12 - 00:21:29:07
John Azoni
That would make me want to open the next email. But then also if you're if you're changing up that call to action and you're making it part of the kind of part of the value or part of the content and, you know, in some way it becomes perhaps I'm just assuming it becomes, you know, a section of the email that they go, okay, this is this is the next part of this email.

00:21:29:07 - 00:21:52:16
John Azoni
And oh, it's an ask. But, you know, it doesn't become like this. They just tune it out because it's just always totally there. It's always in the same spot, it's always the same color. It's, you know, but, but yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm consulting with myself here on my own, my own newsletter. And like I said, I should do some things differently here, actually.

00:21:53:02 - 00:22:11:14
Jess Cook
So that's the thing with email, like, man, you can test so much in email. I mean, subject line testing has been around forever that that's a that's a good one. But just like there's you can play around with so many things and and learn so much, you know each time you send one. So like don't you're not going to break anything.

00:22:11:14 - 00:22:24:15
Jess Cook
I think that's something people get worried about. Like, yeah, that's how we always do it. People are used to that and it's like, no one actually cares. Like, just try it. So you think you might be so surprised that what happens and then that will start to be the way you always do it, right?

00:22:25:07 - 00:23:11:23
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. I wanted to go back to the line too, because, you know, as I have studied copywriting, that is a consistent thing in like copywriting books is using or at least like direct response, like sales copy, is that piece line being super effective. And then as I look at, you know, some really successful like email marketers that I've that I follow, they're very heavy on that, that line and sometimes it's like multiple offer it's it's like piece here's the thing pieces is another thing and sometimes I've seen people use it like like my friend Josh Cantrell he does a lot of messaging for B2B companies and he's really good email marketer as well.

00:23:11:23 - 00:23:36:14
John Azoni
But sometimes he'll, he'll even just like use that line to sort of recap what the rest of the email said. It's kind of like, oh, here's a oh, here's all this value piece. Just a reminder, here's what I want you to take away from this, even if it's already been stated up there. But it's just kind of like something and something about our eyes, like go to the like I always read everyone's pieces.

00:23:37:03 - 00:23:57:00
Jess Cook
Yes, it's funny. The psychology of a piece is like it feels like a secret. Like if I don't read this, I'm going to miss something that feels addictive or that like I can't live without. For whatever reason, our brains feel like that about a piece. And so a lot of people will like scroll scroll a little faster. Scroll, Get down there.

00:23:57:00 - 00:24:01:12
Jess Cook
Oh, yes, right. It's a bizarre little hack, but it really works.

00:24:02:05 - 00:24:18:02
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. So going back to the subject lines, like how do you recommend how do you think about subject lines? You know, what would be kind of your top pointers about subject lines and then how do you test that?

00:24:18:15 - 00:24:44:11
Jess Cook
Yeah, So definitely, again, peaking curiosity, that's a big thing and, and instilling urgency. I think there's something to be said about feeling like I need to open this right now and not waiting on it. And there are some subject lines that you can do that very well with at mar pipes a couple companies ago as at a company and the the software was testing for ad creative.

00:24:45:03 - 00:25:08:04
Jess Cook
So you would kind of put your you know all of your different elements in there and it would make every possible version of your ad it would put them all out on Facebook and then you would know exactly why which one was performing the best was performing the best because you had every possible permutation, right? So you knew, you know, like the blue background with this headline and this image always wins.

00:25:09:06 - 00:25:28:11
Jess Cook
And so we were making we were just constantly churning out like research, like testing results and interesting little tidbits about like yellow out performed over here and pictures of beaches do better. You know, when 70% of the time for travel companies and like so whenever we'd make research we would try to make it that subject line very intriguing.

00:25:28:11 - 00:25:45:14
Jess Cook
And so I think the best one that we ever did was and the email came from me as a person, right? So it was like it was coming from a person. And the subject line was, I made this for you, and it was one of our research reports, right? And so one, it feels very personal too. It's very intriguing.

00:25:45:14 - 00:26:06:20
Jess Cook
What did you make for me? Three, I need to see what it is right now. Right. So there's some urgency built in, There's some personalization built in, there's a lot of intrigue, and then one that got inside there like, Oh, this is really cool information that I can now take and use to test my ads. Right? It wasn't like, Oh, she got me, you know, it was like I was actually finding some value that they could use themselves.

00:26:06:20 - 00:26:18:08
Jess Cook
So I think when you can find a subject line that does that, but then also the content inside the email backs up what you've said. You've got a winner for sure.

00:26:18:08 - 00:26:34:21
John Azoni
I hate the the clickbait, the subject lines drives me nuts. Like if you're trying to trick me into, you know, thinking about like, but if I open that email, I would be like, Oh yeah, she did actually make this thing for me. And it was very helpful, you know? Yeah, yeah.

00:26:35:11 - 00:27:01:12
Jess Cook
That email did really, really well for us, as did that. That piece of content I think too like subject line dot com actually is a great resource. They have all kinds of pointers about like things you should try in your email, subject lines, things like odd numbers work way better than round ones. It feels more real. So like seven tips for something is going to perform better than five tips for something for whatever reason.

00:27:02:13 - 00:27:03:06
Jess Cook
So wait.

00:27:03:06 - 00:27:04:14
John Azoni
Those are two odd numbers though.

00:27:05:02 - 00:27:24:23
Jess Cook
Sorry. I mean, not one. Nice. Okay. Seven or ten, right? Like, right. Okay. Got seven. Feels more realistic and is always going to perform better than ten for even though ten is more seven feels more realistic. So it's like I have a lot of tips like that where you can just go and try that and test those out and see what happens.

00:27:25:20 - 00:27:49:08
John Azoni
Yeah, that's interesting because there's like a pricing sort of tip that that I've that I've heard to, you know, if you're B to B or B to C or or whatever, it's if you put a round number, they're going to assume that that's just kind of like a blanket number. But if you put like some random number, like $93.26, people will subconsciously think that you've actually calculated the costs here.

00:27:49:16 - 00:27:54:11
John Azoni
And this is an accurate number. This isn't just some number you pulled out of a hat. There's some that's.

00:27:54:11 - 00:27:55:04
Jess Cook
Been done there.

00:27:55:04 - 00:28:08:02
John Azoni
Yeah, Yeah. The math has been matched here. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that's that's really interesting. And like, what are your what are your feelings about emojis in the subject line?

00:28:09:07 - 00:28:36:17
Jess Cook
I think if, if the audience likes them, do it. When I was at Mar Pipe, we used emojis in the subject line all the time because we're emailing marketers. Marketers eat that stuff up. Like that is their language, right? Like memes and emoji and like, you know, slang like that. That was our bread and butter at Island. Yeah, We have a very specific set of emojis we use, and we use them very sparingly because we're talking to an I.T and security audience.

00:28:36:21 - 00:29:03:00
Jess Cook
They're not quite as tolerant of that. That's just not their thing right there. They're pretty serious. They don't really even like being marketed to. So like, we're trying not to feel like, hey, it's the marketing person here, you know? So I think it just depends on your audience. If if your potential student base feels like a group of people that would be that would, would like that, then yeah, give it a go.

00:29:03:00 - 00:29:06:10
Jess Cook
You can never go wrong testing something I, I don't think.

00:29:07:06 - 00:29:31:15
John Azoni
For sure and mediums are especially with the right audience memes are really a powerful thing. I the the one I sent out an email yesterday and it had at the very bottom it was like because you know, people that are on my list are hired marketers. So at the very bottom I just, I just found this like, I just kept getting this Mike Tyson meme in my thing.

00:29:31:15 - 00:29:51:09
John Azoni
Chris He's like going to box. Jake Paul And I can't stand Jake. Paul Yeah. And so I was like, you know, if you know this way, here's a something to parody or spoof or something. That's Jake Paul and Mike Tyson thing. And I and I put the the clip of Mike Tyson with the contract. He says, Sign the contract, big boy.

00:29:51:13 - 00:30:12:09
John Azoni
He's got this like he's got a shirt that says, sign the contract in a space for Jake's name. So but like, the funny thing was like, I didn't think much of it. I was like, ask like, here's an idea. But like, and then most of the people that I notice, like with my emails, not most things that clicked on at the top and then very sharp drop off like stuff at the bottom.

00:30:12:09 - 00:30:34:17
John Azoni
So I always just kind of assume like put the testes, things like that. I don't really care that much about at the bottom, but like that one got all the not all the clicks, the majority of the clicks people went all the way down and were like, Oh, a meme. Yeah. You know, And I and I funny, I found that to be like, you know, including just moments of fun and entertainment.

00:30:34:17 - 00:30:57:16
John Azoni
And I think especially like for a college, not even like making it, Oh, let's put a meme of us saying something about enrollment season and trying to make a joke out of it or worse or something like that. But what's just like something funny that you can like loosely connect to, you know, your college, But that's just, that's just a little bright spot in people's inbox.

00:30:58:12 - 00:31:27:18
Jess Cook
Can I tell you? And I actually just connected this dot when you were talking the two best performing memes that I've ever had at two different companies, both included skeletons. And I think there's something means they're like kind of a shorthand for like commiserating about something, I think. Right. Like this thing is annoying and here's like a picture of how it's annoying and like how we feel about it.

00:31:28:09 - 00:31:52:15
Jess Cook
So one of them was it was at Ma Pipe and it was, you know, the skeleton on the bench and it was, you know, creative, the creative team waiting for the media plan. And that's like, that's like something creatives hate, right? Like, well, what ads are you going to make? Well, I don't know, because I don't have a media plan, so I don't know, like what the size is.

00:31:52:15 - 00:32:04:08
Jess Cook
I don't even know what I'm doing, don't know what kind of ads they are. Like, Once you give me a media plan, I can work on something, right? And it feels like it takes months. And then you have like two days to make the ads, right? That's an insight that you can use to create a meme. And this meme.

00:32:05:03 - 00:32:30:01
Jess Cook
So we we were we were in a campaign where we were testing memes to get newsletter sign ups because we found out, here's another nice little thing about email. We found out at Mar Pipe that when someone had been on our email newsletter for between three and four months, they were 60% more likely to book a demo. So we spent a lot of money getting people onto the newsletter because we knew it was a really nice quick path to book demo.

00:32:30:12 - 00:32:50:15
Jess Cook
So we ran a bunch of ads that had memes and that one always won. We could not find another meme that would do better than that. For whatever reason. It was like just this pain point that we really touched on that people related to a lot of people related to found funny and wanted to learn more so that that was cool at last out, which was the role I was.

00:32:50:23 - 00:33:11:17
Jess Cook
I just left before I came to Island. Lasso is a platform for event production companies, so they have a tool that allows event production companies to schedule crew, you know, people who are like putting the stage together for the Rihanna concert and like, you know, who's going to be there for lighting and who's going to bring everything in and who's going to take everything out.

00:33:11:17 - 00:33:38:04
Jess Cook
Where is all the gear going at the next Rihanna concert? Stop? Like all of that logistical stuff can be done within within Lasso is really, really interesting. One of the one of the tools that was part of Lasso was shipping. So when you're shipping, you know, cameras and lights and gear and speakers, you have to know where it is in the country and you have to know when it's coming back because it's probably booked for another job to, you know, a week later.

00:33:38:04 - 00:33:56:08
Jess Cook
And you need to be able to turn it around. One of the kind of insights we found out was you never know where the truck is. Like, you'll be waiting at the job, ready to go. Ten guys standing around, ready to get the stage together or that the conference set up and, you know, the truck is not here.

00:33:56:18 - 00:34:16:08
Jess Cook
And so the meme that we put out was a skeleton pushing down the blinds, looking out the window, and it just said they said the truck would be here. And they said the truck was 10 minutes away. 45 minutes ago. And then it like blew up. We used it like an everything multiple times because people just couldn't get enough of it.

00:34:16:08 - 00:34:30:12
Jess Cook
So if you can find some really nice insights that like people can commiserate on that feel really universal, try testing them out. Try, try finding a meme that like illustrates that feeling or that pain point and try testing it. See what happens.

00:34:31:12 - 00:34:32:20
John Azoni
Yeah, that's awesome.

00:34:33:07 - 00:34:39:15
Jess Cook
Clearly one meeting waiting around for something is a huge pain point. So find out what you don't like to wait for in your audience.

00:34:39:15 - 00:35:10:23
John Azoni
I burst out laughing yesterday. My wife was like, What are you laughing at? It was a meme that was said Marketing, marketing, delivering leads to sales or something like that. And it was just it was like this, like train car pulling apart a party, don't you? Yeah. So good. It was just like it was going so fast, but it was like we should be offended also.

00:35:11:10 - 00:35:39:03
John Azoni
Mark I could just imagine like, marketing, like we got great leads. You and they're just all trash. But yeah, that's I mean, I think like 90% of, like spousal communication, it happens through memes. You know, parenting. I think big parenting decisions are made through like sending, you know, this this funny thing about about parenting that you should be doing differently or that's annoyingly funny thing like that.

00:35:39:03 - 00:35:45:13
John Azoni
So it's it is a really powerful like just a way to relate a way to relate to your audience.

00:35:46:10 - 00:35:57:10
Jess Cook
Absolutely. And like a nice, nice way to say like, we get you write like we have people on the inside who know exactly what you're going through. I think it's a really nice little signal for that. Sure.

00:35:58:07 - 00:36:28:12
John Azoni
Yeah. Yeah. It's something that play into, I think, you know, with alumni newsletters or I guess especially, you know, like Enrollment Center newsletters is like, how can we say that we get you, you know, because if especially if I was enrolled, you know, if I was like coming out of high school or something enrolling in a college like the, the, the school that I felt like understood me and my journey probably would win or have a leg up, you know, that's not the only deciding factor.

00:36:28:12 - 00:36:55:12
John Azoni
But but that definitely, like, my ears perk up when I hear an ad or any sort of communication that I feel like is spot on for what I'm dealing with. Yeah, you know, right there, like for instance, like I'll stop for the ads that immediate like the Instagram ads in my reels or whatever. I mean, it's like every third video is someone trying to, like, come at the camera real fast and like, get, get your attention or something.

00:36:55:12 - 00:37:11:20
John Azoni
Like, I always skip past the ones that are like, Hey, digital marketers are like, Hey, video business owner or like or anything where it's like, sensationalized, like where it's like, like they're like the camera, like, zooms in real quick on them and it's like, it looks like a gimmick to get me to stop.

00:37:11:21 - 00:37:14:12
Jess Cook
I am just with this one thing.

00:37:14:15 - 00:37:38:12
John Azoni
It's like, yeah, no. Or worse, if they if they say stop scrolling, I scroll so hard, I'm like, I will not be told what to do. But if they can communicate in that first sentence that they understand a problem that I have, I can't really think of an example off the top of my head. But there's something that is like, don't try to be sensationalizing or whatever.

00:37:38:12 - 00:37:59:10
John Azoni
Just just get real with me about, you know, hey, we know you have this problem. Here's how we fixed it with this, with this, with this one client or whatever like that. Like, I'll stop. I'll stop for those. Or if it's like, you know, some sort of, like, back massage product impulse buy, I will stop for those two.

00:37:59:10 - 00:38:00:18
Jess Cook
Need all the help you can get there.

00:38:01:04 - 00:38:11:02
John Azoni
Yeah. And those things always take forever. Like I don't know if you've ever impulse bought something off Instagram. They come like three months later I.

00:38:11:02 - 00:38:13:05
Jess Cook
The gratification is so delayed.

00:38:14:01 - 00:38:48:00
John Azoni
Yeah, it's funny. And now, now I know that's just like drop shippers that are it's like it's routing through like Saudi Arabia or something. Yeah. And exactly. But one thing I wanted to go back to was your the coming from a person, but not necessarily written by a person. And and I think that would probably be a big sticking point for a lot of colleges to pick a person instead of having it come from the school.

00:38:48:00 - 00:38:58:12
John Azoni
So like what would be like how should you make that decision? Like, who should be? I mean, like, how do you decide who's the face or the name of the college, you know?

00:38:59:02 - 00:39:23:05
Jess Cook
Yeah, Yeah. It it's a tough decision. I mean, I think when I think about who, you know, I'm kind of going through this right now. We have our island email comes from island, and it's something I want to completely overhaul and rethink and I want it to come from someone. And so, you know, my plan is that I want to kind of figure out I want to write like a list of criteria, right?

00:39:23:05 - 00:39:49:23
Jess Cook
I want it to come from someone who is, you know, of high seniority at the company. So it feels very credible. I want it to come from someone who, you know, doesn't just understand the security side of the business, but also like the productivity and the user experience side of the business like. So I'm going to be making like a checklist for myself of like, what would I want this person to on paper look like?

00:39:49:23 - 00:40:08:23
Jess Cook
Right? And I'll probably that will help me really whittle down that list. We're not a big, big company, so there's probably only going to be a handful of folks that can kind of fit the bill. But, you know, I think I think you really have to understand who your audience is first before you decide who your spokesperson is.

00:40:08:23 - 00:40:32:19
Jess Cook
So who is someone that your audience is going to relate to? And you know, who's someone that feels like they could quickly build trust, right? Like if your audience is young college students, you're probably going to want someone that feels aspirational to them or near their age. Like they just kind of probably went through the same thing I went through not too long ago.

00:40:32:19 - 00:40:48:23
Jess Cook
Right? So I think these are things you kind of have to think about is like how who can I be the who can be the face of my email that's going to build trust with my audience. And I think that's probably the biggest factor in trying to figure out who that is.

00:40:50:19 - 00:41:16:15
John Azoni
Yeah. And I and just as a as an anecdote, I don't actually because I pick up on when someone it's coming from a person like Jake, from Jake from Steak Farm or whatever, you know, and I don't actually need to know like, you know, like a, a real life example is, you know, I, I had to set up a new account on Transistor, which is the podcast hosting platform I use.

00:41:16:23 - 00:41:44:09
John Azoni
So they think I'm a new customer and they keep sending me all this on ramping stuff and, and it's, and it's coming from like James from Transistor or something. But one thing I notice as you're saying, that is like, I don't actually care who James is, didn't go research who James is if he's a real person if he's you know yeah you know, if I just assume he's some guy that works for Transistor and there's probably several of these guys, but he's just the guy that they picked.

00:41:44:15 - 00:42:20:07
John Azoni
I mean, I, I think I think you have a lot more like room for you know I think people just care a lot less than you know but but I and because that's another thing too where it's like it's true making that making videos for for college is one of the things that is so hard for colleges to do is the voice over can't be somebody the voice over can't be someone that didn't go to the school, you know, or or if we show an actor or something, it has to be, you know, this isn't for everyone.

00:42:20:08 - 00:42:45:13
John Azoni
This isn't for every college. And I'm sure there are a lot of colleges that I'm just thinking of, a couple of colleges that I worked for where you had these discussions of like like in my mind, nobody knows who that person is. They're just kind of playing a role. They're just kind of giving a vibe. You know, in the college's mind, they are very afraid of who's going to see this and pick it apart and and stuff like that.

00:42:46:08 - 00:42:54:23
John Azoni
And so I think I think there's that that gap there of like the reality of how much people care about that stuff.

00:42:54:23 - 00:42:55:10
Jess Cook
Yeah.

00:42:55:10 - 00:43:21:17
John Azoni
Versus you know. So yeah but but for me I just as you were talking, I just, I just noticed these James emails from Transistor, I'm like, yeah, I don't actually care who James is, but it does feel more personal than if it just came from a blanket transistor podcasting email platform. I think I, I'm more likely to open it from coming from a person because at least I feel like I can if I have a if I respond, I'm talking to I'm responding.

00:43:21:17 - 00:43:42:01
Jess Cook
To somebody back there. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And that's a funny thing. I noticed that at at Ma Pipe when I made the transition and, and had the email come from me was I started getting replies, you know, hey, I would love to know more about the test you talked about in this email. You know, can I talk to somebody at Sale Cell sales?

00:43:42:01 - 00:44:00:14
Jess Cook
Right? So I would pass that to the sales team. Like, I think that is part of it. And I think people in their minds are like, yeah, there's people at this company, right? There's people there, they see, they see a person rather than a company. And it just I don't know that the trust level feels different when, when you, when you're doing that.

00:44:01:20 - 00:44:21:16
John Azoni
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The reply factor. Yeah I like I love when people reply to my newsletters. It's like it makes my whole week. Yeah I know it's for that, you know. So. So yeah there is, there is a definite like leaning into that human element of like this is a, this is a person, not a brand that's talking to you.

00:44:21:18 - 00:44:54:23
John Azoni
Yes. And you're encouraging conversation through, through email if it makes sense to you know. Yeah absolutely So Well cool. So the the last quick question I had is multiple, multiple personas in the same email. So this one's this was a tough one I've been in and you know, some email workshops where this question has been asked, How do you address personalization?

00:44:54:23 - 00:45:19:18
John Azoni
We all know that personalization is important. We're all it's all driven into us marketers that we need to be personalizing stuff. But like in reality, that's kind of hard. You know, you could personalize by major, I guess, if you're a college, but like if it's like a alumni or something like that, that's a lot of that's a lot of separate lists, you know, to have separate alumni by major and things like that.

00:45:19:18 - 00:45:25:14
John Azoni
What would be your advice? Is there a compromise or is there something that people should definitely do instead?

00:45:26:05 - 00:45:50:03
Jess Cook
Yeah, I think there are little things you can do to make it feel personal but still be able to scale something like this. So when I was at Lasso, we had ten different personas of people that were potential buyers of the product because it did so much in the event production company like the the scheduler could be using it.

00:45:50:03 - 00:46:11:00
Jess Cook
The warehouse head of warehouse could be using it, the finance person could be using it. Right. And any one of them could come to us at any time and want a demo and want more information. So we had to talk to all of them and we had four people on our marketing team, like we couldn't feasibly create content for all of them.

00:46:11:00 - 00:46:31:11
Jess Cook
And so one of the ways that we did this was through email. We had multiple emails that split everything out by job function. And typically what we do like the same content. Most of the same content was relevant to all of those people, right? Like how this product can help you transform the way that you do your work.

00:46:32:09 - 00:46:59:04
Jess Cook
But the subject line in the intro like to get somebody into it and interested in it. We're kind of the spots where we tried to personalize a bit. So I remember for one campaign specifically, we had ten different subject lines and we had ten different intro paragraphs. And those intro paragraphs really and subject lines hit on the specific pain points for that specific persona.

00:46:59:06 - 00:47:18:05
Jess Cook
Right? And so it was going back to this idea of like you're speaking directly to me and the things that I experience in my job every day. That was what we were trying to do. And the open rates on those emails and the the click through rates on those emails were some of the highest we'd had in the entire time I'd been there.

00:47:18:05 - 00:47:42:09
Jess Cook
And I really attribute it to the fact that we just took, you know, an extra bit of time to to really nail down what the the beginning of that email to be, to kind of hook someone in and make it feel like we're speaking specifically to your role and what you do. So, yeah, I mean, I think splitting it out by major feels really interesting.

00:47:42:09 - 00:48:06:11
Jess Cook
Splitting out my college even is like a little bit less of a you don't have to cut it so deep. It's a little bit higher level Could be really interesting, I will say, and I get this feeling just from this is based on like the myriad television commercials I have seen for universities where they try to target everyone.

00:48:06:11 - 00:48:35:04
Jess Cook
Like we have all these majors, we've got science, we've got English, we've got, you know, people over here doing engineering stuff and and like there has to be at each university like the top three, right. Colleges that kind of are like the bread and butter. And that's really where I would I mean, if there's anything that I would I would take and I would say could apply from B2B directly to higher ed.

00:48:35:04 - 00:48:59:16
Jess Cook
It's this idea of like find one target and one channel and and dominate there before you move on. So for instance, Western has an awesome aviation program like it's the best in the state. It's something that really sets them apart. And so that that like if I were Western, that's where I would start, right? Like really talk about the aviation major.

00:48:59:16 - 00:49:40:11
Jess Cook
And while that might not be a huge like part of enrollment, it is a big differentiator. And then if someone else, you know, that maybe even isn't interested in aviation, see aviation, like what else do they have in aviation that's so different? Like they've got to have other really cool stuff, right? So I don't know, I would really lean into this idea of who are the couple of what are really like the the either the colleges or the majors that like really stand out for you, Whether the academics are really great, there's an awesome program or it's super different from what everyone else offers really lean into those heavy and and get really good at

00:49:40:11 - 00:49:50:06
Jess Cook
selling that first before trying to move on and and really open up like, Oh, we've got all this stuff right because when you try to sell to everybody, you're selling no one and.

00:49:50:09 - 00:49:51:03
John Azoni
Selling no one.

00:49:51:05 - 00:49:52:01
Jess Cook
That never works.

00:49:53:06 - 00:50:10:06
John Azoni
Cool. I love it. Yeah, that's. Yeah, especially like a 32nd spot. It's like it's just Kimmie's so high level, Like, so, so broad. Yeah, Like, and then. Then you get into, like, the cliche messaging of, like, your journey starts here. Yeah. And it's like, yes.

00:50:10:22 - 00:50:32:22
Jess Cook
You watch any college football game or basketball game and you see six of those. And I'm like, I cannot tell the difference between any of them, right? Yeah. So I don't know. There's there is there's definitely a gap in higher education doing something really interesting and different and yeah, opportunity for a lot of people out there.

00:50:34:00 - 00:50:38:02
John Azoni
So where can thank you for coming on by the way It's been great conversation.

00:50:38:10 - 00:50:40:02
Jess Cook
Thank you for having me last.

00:50:40:13 - 00:51:06:00
John Azoni
I want to just drop a plug for the That's Marketing Baby podcast. As I've mentioned a couple of times, it is very it is a very, you know, for for higher ed that want to get kind of an outside of you want to get outside of the higher ed bubble, but you still want to get stuff that's like really relevant to the stuff that you're doing in marketing every, you know, Marcum Day after day that's really good podcast.

00:51:06:00 - 00:51:08:20
John Azoni
It's you and Susan is that her?

00:51:08:20 - 00:51:28:04
Jess Cook
Susan went to Grad Yeah she and I were the the entire marketing team at MA Pipe and we did the MA Pipe podcast together and then when we both laughed Ma Pipe, we were like, That was so much fun. We need to, we should start our own thing. And so that's how that's marketing. Baby was born and it's just the two of us kind of chatting it up on different marketing topics and, and it's a lot of fun.

00:51:29:13 - 00:51:34:17
John Azoni
Cool. I love it. Where can people connect with you at just LinkedIn?

00:51:34:17 - 00:51:44:12
Jess Cook
I'm very active on LinkedIn. If you find me there, just cook at Island, Just drop me a line and say that you you heard me here.

00:51:44:12 - 00:51:50:21
John Azoni
Tell him. Johnson That's her intelligence. I me All right, cool.