Higher Ed Storytelling University

00:00:00:05 - 00:00:23:13
John Azoni
My guest today is Alana Villa May. Alana is on a mission to make community colleges the number one choice across the nation. She is the CEO of most Likely to Succeed, an advisory firm for community college enrollment marketing. Alana has worked with over 100 community colleges. She is the creator of the community College Promise Framework, a strategic framework for enrollment.

00:00:23:13 - 00:00:25:04
John Azoni
So. Welcome to the show, Alana.

00:00:25:18 - 00:00:27:15
Alana Villemez
Thanks so much for having me. Nice to be here.

00:00:27:15 - 00:00:33:06
John Azoni
John Absolutely. So you've worked with over 100 community colleges. That's a lot.

00:00:33:20 - 00:00:46:07
Alana Villemez
It is a lot of I think it's just a little under 10% at this point. So out of what is it, 1500, 1600 number seems to increase and increase these days, which is good news.

00:00:46:15 - 00:00:49:18
John Azoni
So how are people finding you? Like, how are you coming across people?

00:00:49:21 - 00:01:04:20
Alana Villemez
Yeah, mostly on LinkedIn. And then I have a network from my previous work with community colleges, so mainly through LinkedIn. And that way it makes it really easy. So if you if you want to connect on LinkedIn, let me know.

00:01:05:13 - 00:01:11:22
John Azoni
Awesome. We like to start off the show by having you tell us something that people would be surprised to know about you.

00:01:12:14 - 00:01:33:03
Alana Villemez
Yes, I think the most surprising thing to know about me is I've actually moved six times in the last three years, not because I'm a vagabond, but because my husband is in the Navy. So I'm a military spouse. So I've lived on the West Coast, the East Coast, not made it to the Midwest quite yet, but also have lived overseas in South Korea.

00:01:33:03 - 00:01:55:20
Alana Villemez
So I'm just returning from that stint and then now located here in Hawaii. But I think something that's made me appreciate moving is just all the public systems are the same everywhere you move. So I am a nerd and I love things like libraries and the United States Postal Service, which they had in Korea on the base, surprisingly, which was so exciting.

00:01:55:20 - 00:02:00:09
Alana Villemez
And of course, yeah, community colleges. No community colleges in Korea, though.

00:02:01:09 - 00:02:03:14
John Azoni
So you're live in Hawaii. That's pretty cool.

00:02:03:21 - 00:02:15:17
Alana Villemez
Yeah. So on a small island and they have seven community colleges here as well, so I know them HCC, they're great. But yeah, you're out here in Hawaii living in paradise.

00:02:16:02 - 00:02:22:11
John Azoni
Love it. So tell me about your background then with community colleges and how you arrived at your company now.

00:02:23:01 - 00:02:49:12
Alana Villemez
Yeah, well, I have to start by saying that I experienced going to a community college, so I graduated from a community college and doing that I was really able to graduate debt free and have internships and also work at the college as a student ambassador. So I was really well attuned to what the community colleges could offer. And when I graduated, I quickly realized this is somewhere I really love to work and something I'd really love to advocate for.

00:02:50:01 - 00:03:12:21
Alana Villemez
So since then, I've been working actually with community colleges for over eight years on marketing and communications campaigns. And what really surprised me, though, in attending a community college is just the stigma that comes with it. I remember people in high school being like, What? Why are you going there? You need to be going somewhere else. And it didn't really make sense to me at the time because there were so many pros.

00:03:13:06 - 00:03:35:04
Alana Villemez
The cons didn't really make sense. I guess it just seemed like there was this overwhelming stigma. So any who that's that's why I really went and embarked on creating this company is because I feel like community colleges have a path for anyone in their community. And achievement isn't just the name on your diploma. That's kind of where the name most likely to succeed came from.

00:03:35:04 - 00:03:55:07
Alana Villemez
So like you said, I'm here to make community colleges the number one choice because I was so impacted by that. And I've had friends who have gone and had that same impact on their lives just just from one college experience. So that's why I'm here. It all started at a community college and I'm still truckin, so to speak.

00:03:55:07 - 00:04:12:02
John Azoni
That's awesome. I did some courses at a community, so I went to art school and then I did like some gen ed stuff at community college here in Michigan. And one of my favorite classes that I took was at the community college. It was about logic and, you know, I learned all about like logical fallacies and stuff like that.

00:04:12:02 - 00:04:32:08
John Azoni
And, you know, marketing speak. You know what? Like, you know what to watch out for with marketing speak when they're like, Oh, you can win up to something. But then I go and I remember sitting in that class being like, Yeah, but that's what marketers do, you know, because like, and my, my teacher was like, You must be going into marketing.

00:04:32:08 - 00:04:39:22
John Azoni
So I was like, I always had this marketing mindset of like, yeah, I can see both sides, like from a consumer, but also like you got to sort of sell it, you know.

00:04:40:20 - 00:04:51:03
Alana Villemez
You have to have something exciting for people to see that's really funny. He pinpointed you. You must be a marketer. You don't belong here.

00:04:51:03 - 00:05:02:13
John Azoni
Yeah, cool. Well, so tell me tell me about some key differences you see between marketing and enrollment challenges with community colleges compared to a typical four year university?

00:05:03:02 - 00:05:27:08
Alana Villemez
Sure, there's a couple. And this is kind of why I created the Promise Framework. You so nicely introduce for me. So thank you for the love. I appreciate it. But basically this is a strategic tool to consider all the factors that are really affecting community colleges. So you've got the external factors like industry policy, community and perception, and then you have everything internally.

00:05:27:08 - 00:05:51:00
Alana Villemez
So departments, the programs you offer technology, and then of course our bread and butter communications. I also would not fit into that class unfortunately, you referenced earlier. So really the reason I made this was because I found a lot of community colleges were having a lot of differences between the external factors they were having to consider compared to four year universities and then also those internal elements.

00:05:51:00 - 00:06:18:07
Alana Villemez
So something I saw a lot was they maybe were getting impacted with how much financial aid they were getting, but I think the the biggest one is actually in the community and perception area. So they have, like I mentioned previously, the stigma. We lovingly refer to as stigma. We probably shouldn't have given it a name. I feel like that gave it even more legs now that we're going back into that marketing class.

00:06:18:07 - 00:06:40:11
Alana Villemez
But hey, it's called CC stigma. And then the other element is that they really are serving their community. So it's very local based. Unless you have a really robust international recruitment strategy or out of state recruitment strategy, you are going to be recruiting primarily from your local community, which is going to be a pipeline of high school students and then adult learners.

00:06:40:11 - 00:07:02:09
Alana Villemez
So the learners or those that are attending are usually a little bit more diverse, I would say, than the traditional four year student going to a four year university. Again, all generalizations, but I think anyone who works at a community college could tell you that. But they have different challenges, right? They maybe have kids at home or they're trying to work and go to school.

00:07:02:16 - 00:07:33:04
Alana Villemez
They're providing for a family and going to school, or they may be looking for something a little bit more short term, going into more of a career focused or outcomes focus in terms of trades program. So they are really catering to the local community and that's probably the biggest difference in marketing in enrollment is they have to have a really good reputation in that community and then be able to serve that community, which if you think about, like I said, all those public systems of four just can be hard to do.

00:07:33:09 - 00:07:43:00
Alana Villemez
It's hard to manage and meet the needs of such a diverse group from retirement age to those that are in high school. Even so, they have a big challenge set before them.

00:07:44:02 - 00:08:04:11
John Azoni
Awesome. So you wrote an article called How to Fix Branding Blunders Perceptions Affect on Community College Success. So what was the overall? That's how I found you, because I saw this article pop up on my feed. I don't know if we were friends already on LinkedIn, but I saw it. I was like, Oh, this is really interesting. Let's get Alana on the show here.

00:08:05:02 - 00:08:12:01
John Azoni
So like, tell me about what was like the overall problem this article was addressing and what caused you to write it?

00:08:12:19 - 00:08:46:14
Alana Villemez
Sure. Yeah. I think it started primarily with COVID. There was like an influx of funds and then really dwindled enrollments. And so community colleges were investing a lot more in marketing and looking at marketing as maybe just like a flier or a digital advertising campaign, but really wanting it to make an impact on their enrollment. Obviously, when we spend money, we want to see that impact in the ROI, but they weren't necessarily having the internal work on their brand, so they would put a lot of money into marketing the campaign.

00:08:46:15 - 00:09:11:05
Alana Villemez
Want to get maybe the ROI that they were hoping or it wouldn't get the traction they were really looking for. That was kind of what I call the silver bullets during the enrollment period, because for whatever reason, one student's their perception of college at the time was not not going or taking a gap year because of the mental health struggles and then to just everyone had been turned upside down.

00:09:11:05 - 00:09:32:19
Alana Villemez
So anyway, I kept seeing this diminished trust when people would run marketing campaigns and then sometimes that would even lead to the conclusion that, hey, we're just not even going to put more budget into our marketing campaign, or we're going to cut our marketing campaigns budget. And really this this happened pre-COVID as well. But it just became more dramatic, I guess, during the COVID seasons.

00:09:32:19 - 00:10:12:14
Alana Villemez
There was a lot more pressures there, but in many cases they understood like maybe the college needed to change a little bit, but it was hard to pinpoint and bring others along in that process to really hone in on where people in their community were, where that perception was. So it just, for me highlighted a really common problem that people were really relying heavily on having a really great tagline or pictures or video without really looking at the critical core of perception and how the colleges experience or their reputation and underestimating that element significantly and to their detriment.

00:10:12:14 - 00:10:35:07
Alana Villemez
Unfortunately, my poor marketers, I'm like, I don't want anyone to be losing budget out here. So that's really why I wrote this is just to pinpoint, Hey, if we have misaligned Mints in terms of perception, you're going to waste resources and it's going to impact enrollment negatively or not have as much of an impact in enrollment as what you would like to see.

00:10:36:06 - 00:10:53:01
John Azoni
And there's like a what I liked about it was this brand pyramid, a visual. So we'll link to obviously link to the article in the in the show notes. But for people who are just listening, can you paint a picture of what the brand pyramid is and how people should be thinking about it?

00:10:53:16 - 00:10:56:22
Alana Villemez
Sure. You're making my job really hard. No.

00:10:57:13 - 00:10:59:18
Alana Villemez
Okay. Just kidding.

00:10:59:18 - 00:11:25:14
Alana Villemez
I'm happy to walk through it. So it's a pyramid. The bottom is bigger than the top is small, but basically working from the bottom of. I was trying to think about like, okay, why did I make it a pyramid again? Oh, this is like because we have expression at the very top. All the things we think about as marketers and the components that make that up are the voice and messaging image and then identity.

00:11:25:14 - 00:11:50:21
Alana Villemez
So things like the college logo, the college name, the wordmark, the tagline, and then the tone and communication of the brand. So that's where us as marketers like to live, that's our bread and butter. And then in the middle of the pyramid, you've got your perception and what creates perception is really the experience students have with the brand, their reputation, so the public opinion and trust in the brand.

00:11:50:21 - 00:12:11:10
Alana Villemez
So what does your community think of you and then your differentiation? What makes the college unique and distinct from your competitors and what unique value propositions do you have as a college? And then at the very bottom, which is actually my favorite part, surprisingly of the whole thing is the values and mission. So this is in your strategic plan.

00:12:11:10 - 00:12:35:13
Alana Villemez
It's what your community college stands for. It's what your mission is, your guiding principles. And really you should be able to draw from the bottom of the brand pyramid all the way up aligned to say, okay, our mission and values are portrayed in our perception that are then portrayed in our expression. And so really that that's how I thought of coming up with that concept and visualizing it is okay.

00:12:35:15 - 00:12:52:20
Alana Villemez
We have to remember the foundation of that values and mission is the most important. And so that's the biggest perception. The next, biggest, largest, I think I'll just stick with largest and then expression at the very tippy top. It's not going to have as much of an impact as those other two sections.

00:12:53:23 - 00:13:30:00
John Azoni
Yeah, and I I've been through a couple of rebranding experiences at a previous production company that I worked with and one of the main things that I noticed was our biggest need going into talking with the branding agency was the values and mission and differentiation and that stuff at the bottom and needing help working through that. And then the what the branding agency was like, okay, like we'll kind of talk a little bit about that, but like, let's talk about fonts and like colors and stuff like that and like, and we were always like, Whoa, whoa, like, help, help us.

00:13:30:00 - 00:13:49:20
John Azoni
Like kind of, you know, build a foundation here. I'm like, you know, because it's tough going from any organization that's kind of doing that's kind of all things to all people to then trying to figure out like, okay, what is really at the core of what we do, what we love doing, what we're good at, who were best cut out to work with.

00:13:49:20 - 00:14:00:21
John Azoni
But yeah, putting the cart before the horse. Really? I'm sorry. It's like I can't even like they're like sentence logos and I'm like, I can't even stay there and begin to process this right now because, like, I'm just not there yet.

00:14:01:04 - 00:14:22:00
Alana Villemez
Yes, we need the themes first, you guys, then we can move to the logo. Yeah, that seems to be the case. I'm assuming they were designers. This is like the assumptive part of me, which we know what people are when they assume so you can call me out. But anyway, yeah, I've assumed they're the designers and they're just excited to get started.

00:14:22:00 - 00:14:48:13
Alana Villemez
But you really need to make sure it's all working together from from the bottom up. Otherwise you're going to have something honestly that's going to topple over on you or you're going to run a campaign for a year and then realize, Oh, that didn't work out the way that we wanted, or we don't have as much flexibility. So yeah, I, I have the same experience, which is exactly why I thought, let's just visualize this and and see what we can do with it.

00:14:49:08 - 00:15:08:10
John Azoni
Cool. So and then I like this quote from your article and I'd love for you to expand on it says, Marketers often spin their wheels trying to create a brand awareness strategy and message that attracts students. But when they underestimate perception as the source of their strategy, it's like trying to build a pyramid without the center. Walk us through that.

00:15:08:20 - 00:15:29:16
Alana Villemez
Yeah. So I actually have a story about not even me. It's about my best friend. She went on her honeymoon like two or three years ago. She went to Sri Lanka and there a hike there called World's End and she has low blood sugar. The hike is called World's End. So I think you could estimate how difficult this hike was.

00:15:29:16 - 00:15:54:15
Alana Villemez
It's like steep. You're hiking for at least 5 to 6 hours. And they had promised lunch at the top of like a chicken sandwich. So she gets to the top. She's she's totally gassed. You know, she's just like, oh, my gosh, I'm I have low blood sugar. This chicken sandwich will surely revive me. Takes a bite of the sandwich, and it's just two pieces of bread with minced onions in it.

00:15:54:15 - 00:15:57:11
Alana Villemez
So it was.

00:15:57:11 - 00:15:57:22
Alana Villemez
It was.

00:15:58:00 - 00:15:58:16
Alana Villemez
Yes.

00:15:58:23 - 00:15:59:21
Alana Villemez
Yes.

00:16:01:13 - 00:16:24:15
Alana Villemez
Anyway, it always cracks me up because I too know the joy of when you've done something hard and you're like, Yes, my snack is collating me. So I can only imagine, like your reaction, the disappointment and like frustration, you know, and then you still have to hike down. It was just a bad time. So the the real thing I want to use was this minced onion sandwich, but it got cut.

00:16:24:15 - 00:16:46:06
Alana Villemez
So we went with the bread pyramid. So the whole idea here is that, you know, you don't want to promise to be promising people a chicken sandwich and then you're going to give them to slices of bread with minced onions. It's not a sandwich. Anyway, crack myself up for that. But the minced on, you know, the chicken is the perception.

00:16:46:06 - 00:17:12:19
Alana Villemez
So it's basically saying like, okay, they made this big promise of what they were going to get. And then it really didn't live up to that expectation. And what's on the inside is really what matters when it came to the sandwich because minced onion is not a core sandwich elements, you know, I think we could all get behind that unless someone like Smithsonian sandwiches, then they're going to have to tell me something.

00:17:12:19 - 00:17:31:00
Alana Villemez
I just don't know. But we just don't want to give students right. Something that's subpar. We want to give them what the college promised. And perception is really the core indicator of are we doing what we we promised from our mission and values? And did they get what they were expecting? That that's really the core of it.

00:17:31:11 - 00:17:50:06
John Azoni
And how are you helping realize your clients like level of perception? Like are you kind of following that through? You know, if you work with them on the front end, like, like with messaging and the vision and mission and stuff like that, are you, are you then doing surveys or are you coming to find out if if you were weren't successful or the college was or wasn't successful?

00:17:50:14 - 00:18:18:13
Alana Villemez
Yeah, that's a great question. So we conduct a perception survey and really what it looks at is faculty and staff, your current students and then the community and ask very similar questions of of those three groups. And at the end, do you have a comparison or able to draw a comparison of, okay, this, this is where there is one line is how I like to or one thread that we can pull all the way through.

00:18:18:13 - 00:18:40:09
Alana Villemez
That is a strength between faculty, staff, students and the community. And I think most of the time colleges can really do this kind of thing themselves too. Like if they were doing students and then faculty and staff. The hard part is getting those community members to really respond and having a good sample size. That's the difficult part. Anyhow.

00:18:40:20 - 00:19:06:22
Alana Villemez
It's been really interesting doing that with colleges because sometimes what they've set forth in their strategic plan even which or their strategic enrollment management plan doesn't match up with what their faculty, staff, students and their community are saying. And it's a way to put on bumpers like in bowling to okay, I know we all think this may be internally at the college, but here is what our students and our community is telling us.

00:19:06:22 - 00:19:26:00
Alana Villemez
So, you know, maybe that that means we have to make changes or we really need to be looking at this differently. So that's that's the core instrument that makes it really easy. And you don't need to do it very often because the perception doesn't change as quickly as we we'd maybe like to think, which is to our benefit also to our detriment.

00:19:26:11 - 00:19:47:16
Alana Villemez
So you probably only need to do it every 2 to 3 years to really get a good understanding of, okay, well, did things change, you know, from these these items that we implemented? What does this look like now? So that's that's the easiest way I've heard of people doing focus groups, too. You could always add those on if you have like a certain population you're missing.

00:19:47:16 - 00:19:52:21
Alana Villemez
But focus groups are tough these days. So really sticking to that survey module is the easiest way.

00:19:53:14 - 00:20:16:00
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. And I think I liken it to like core values. You know, there's like people at all these organizations like get go crazy over their core values and what they, you know, what they want to be about. But it's like your DNA as an organization really is like who you actually are, what others glean from you or how others receive you.

00:20:16:00 - 00:20:40:04
John Azoni
It just drives me nuts when I see everybody, like I want to say, like probably like eight out of ten. I feel like organizations more or less so in higher education. But if you're looking at like for profit, nonprofit integrity is one of their number one things. And I just feel like we don't even really understand what that means, you know, because it's like, how is that lived out?

00:20:40:12 - 00:20:49:18
John Azoni
You know, how are you in every decision you're making upholding yourself with integrity? Because like, everyone is an integral part. What's the word?

00:20:51:12 - 00:20:52:07
Alana Villemez
I don't know.

00:20:53:09 - 00:21:14:02
Alana Villemez
They don't have integrity. They don't or like, yeah, the and the standard of integrity is different everywhere, right? Like how someone else might interpret integrity is going to be a little bit different than someone else because it's character, typically character based. So you're trying to assign like a character, I would argue to your brand. It makes it really difficult.

00:21:14:02 - 00:21:45:16
Alana Villemez
And I find that with community colleges, like they have a crazy huge mission. If you look at just general community college missions, they should aim for like reach for the stars, you know, shoot for the moon, so to speak. But it is difficult if if you're really relying on the aspirational elements and not the operational element. Right. How does this actually get done and bringing it back to, okay, we know we want this to happen, What is it actually look like in the day to day?

00:21:45:23 - 00:22:05:22
Alana Villemez
And that's usually the gap, right, that I see in trends with community colleges. And it can look a couple different ways. But yeah, drives me nuts too. I'm like, What does that mean? But I'm a I'm a an operational person. So I'm I'm more of a in the weeds of how are we going to get this done? What does that look like?

00:22:05:22 - 00:22:10:11
Alana Villemez
So maybe you are that way too. Are you that way? John I would assume so.

00:22:10:18 - 00:22:36:03
John Azoni
I find myself asking, what does that mean? You know? So maybe. Maybe, yeah, I think I think about it more like from a messaging standpoint of like because I think people just use big words or they use things that they use words that just like everyone says, like it just yeah, I can't even think of an example right now, but I find myself asking like, okay, I know everyone says that, but like, what does that actually mean?

00:22:36:08 - 00:22:36:23
John Azoni
You know, what does.

00:22:36:23 - 00:22:45:22
Alana Villemez
That look like? Yeah, Yes, 100%. We're we're in the same boat. I'm like, show me the receipts. Show me the proof for timelines.

00:22:46:00 - 00:22:46:16
Alana Villemez
Yeah, that's.

00:22:50:18 - 00:22:58:01
John Azoni
It. You're never alone if you make a reality TV reference and this on this podcast, because I.

00:22:58:01 - 00:22:59:13
Alana Villemez
Oh, no. Okay, that's.

00:23:00:02 - 00:23:03:20
Alana Villemez
Our offline conversation.

00:23:03:20 - 00:23:07:12
John Azoni
My wife and I have been watching The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

00:23:07:12 - 00:23:09:17
Alana Villemez
Oh, no, I'm very erratic.

00:23:09:19 - 00:23:10:05
John Azoni
All right.

00:23:10:16 - 00:23:29:11
Alana Villemez
I haven't gotten there. But I will confess, I've been really into Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. I have gone. I have. It's my first Real Housewives that I've gotten into, and I love it. I had a dream last night that I met Lisa Vanderpump. And anyway, Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. She is a personality. So it was a great dream.

00:23:30:00 - 00:23:36:03
Alana Villemez
Too many horses. It was a great time. Anyway, you went there, John. We're gambling now.

00:23:36:03 - 00:23:37:10
Alana Villemez
Oh, yeah. I'll cut it out.

00:23:38:07 - 00:23:41:07
John Azoni
We talked about love is blind on this show.

00:23:41:10 - 00:23:46:01
Alana Villemez
You know, I love it.

00:23:46:01 - 00:23:57:23
John Azoni
So. But you unpack three branding blunders in your article, so I want to I want you to just kind of walk us through, you know, expounding on each of them. So let's start with the first one was brand dilution. So what does that mean? How do you advise people?

00:23:58:08 - 00:24:22:15
Alana Villemez
Yeah. So this is really speaking to what you were just talking about, which is, okay, are we actually living out the brand or what are the strengths we can pull from? So brand dilution, I call this the vanilla brand and there's nothing inherently wrong with it, right? Like everyone likes vanilla ice cream, everyone likes it, but at the same time it's just vanilla, like it's it's vanilla.

00:24:22:16 - 00:24:48:10
Alana Villemez
So basically, I think sometimes because community colleges have such a robust mission, they have so many people, they're serving lots of stakeholders that they have to try to please. They can try to be everything to everyone. And that's what gets you into a place where you don't really have key differentiators from your competitors. Or new students are going to be kind of confused like, Do stand for this, but you also stand for this.

00:24:48:14 - 00:25:06:01
Alana Villemez
I don't get it. Like, it's not clear what the value is that they're necessarily getting. So I kind of talk about a couple examples in the article, but that's really the point It reminds me of when you have paint growing up and then you have to add water to it. It's like the color is just not going to be as vibrance.

00:25:06:01 - 00:25:08:11
Alana Villemez
It's just the dollar that's brand dilution.

00:25:08:23 - 00:25:30:04
John Azoni
Yeah, absolutely. I told you I was it before our before we started recording. I went to New York this past week and we went to the Ice Cream Museum and they have you pick a ice cream name and I don't know, I couldn't think of one. I ended up being Vanilla Ice.

00:25:30:04 - 00:25:40:03
Alana Villemez
Hey, but it works. It works. I listen to spin alleys. It's a spin. You could have just gone with vanilla chocolate. You know, I like it.

00:25:40:13 - 00:25:51:13
John Azoni
So when you when you when you have a school that you come into contact with, that you start working with, like where do you look for the areas that are less vanilla that they can kind of lean into?

00:25:52:03 - 00:26:17:09
Alana Villemez
Yeah, it's really so. So usually these schools, they typically have a good experience. They typically have a good reputation. So you're really looking at the differentiation. It's things like OC within your programs. Are students making more money when they graduate? Do you have a direct employer pipeline? And when I talk about in the article is Coast Line College, I have not worked with them, but they have a great, great team.

00:26:17:09 - 00:26:38:12
Alana Villemez
I know the team over there, but they emphasize on their college homepage like we have a partnership with the NSA. So our students who graduate from our computer science program can go and get a job at the NSA. And that was very unique to me. I think colleges are typically keeping a more above line message, but they're a fully online college.

00:26:38:12 - 00:27:03:03
Alana Villemez
They were one of the colleges in California specifically, I think in the US even that went fully online before COVID. So they have been having this online computer science cybersecurity program for at least four or five years, I want to say. So that's that's one way. Like let's look for the differentiators. Is there like a star program that you have that you could use more enrollments in?

00:27:03:11 - 00:27:25:23
Alana Villemez
And then what are the things that students are benefiting from in that program? Just looking for those differentiators. And then classic ones like, you know, if there's a neighbor, if your competitors are in your backyard, so to speak, or not in your backyard, using that to your advantage, like location wise and just really bringing it back to what the benefits are in regards to the student.

00:27:25:23 - 00:27:36:22
Alana Villemez
So that's where we look typically. So what kind of differentiators can we pull because they don't have as much of a problem with the experience and the reputation as others. If you're kind of experiencing this.

00:27:36:22 - 00:27:41:14
John Azoni
Well, cool. So let's talk about brand undervaluation. What does that look like?

00:27:41:22 - 00:28:13:02
Alana Villemez
Yeah, this is when a college may be have identified those differentiators as in they're great differentiators, but they're leaning too heavily on it. So I had someone tell me one time, you know, your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness. And I think that's true in a lot of circumstances. You'll see colleges really hone in on maybe one element, and in this case I use transferred like we're the number one transfer college, which is amazing if you think about it.

00:28:13:08 - 00:28:37:17
Alana Villemez
But at the same time, it doesn't really set you up to get students who are maybe interested in those two your programs or certificates or even noncredit credentials, because you're really honing in on one area. So this just really affects the brand message in terms of what strength you're differentiating. You want to have a couple that you can lean on and so that's brand undervaluation.

00:28:37:17 - 00:28:58:12
Alana Villemez
Like maybe they just have it, they have it adapted to the market needs. They're still kind of relying on an old crutch is how I like to think about it. Or their messages haven't really adapted with what the college's full range of offerings could be, or they're just relying on a singular metric to be like, This is the coolest thing ever, and a lot of times it does work.

00:28:58:12 - 00:29:12:23
Alana Villemez
It just doesn't help if you're trying to expand and grow your enrollment because you have to again, the liked by other audiences that maybe aren't looking to transfer or are looking to do something a little bit different than what you're honing in on.

00:29:13:11 - 00:29:16:22
John Azoni
Yeah. And lastly is brand exaggeration.

00:29:17:12 - 00:29:48:06
Alana Villemez
Yeah, this is your class you were talking about. So this is false advertising. This is the sandwich. This is saying you're going to get a chicken sandwich and then you get minced onion. So it's like saying, Oh, we have this or we offer this much money. And then the student gets in there and they realize, Oh, this was not the experience that was promised to me in the advertising, or this was not something that was really told to me at any point in the conversion process.

00:29:48:13 - 00:30:09:08
Alana Villemez
So they come in and they kind of have a sour taste in their mouth about one thing I would say lied to or, you know, given false information in acting on that information. And now they're in a decision that they didn't realize was going to be a certain way. So this is why capturing the strengths and really being authentic to that brand is so important.

00:30:09:08 - 00:30:13:09
Alana Villemez
But this is the Smithsonian sandwich for me. Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:14:04 - 00:30:23:21
John Azoni
I have been on a big onion kick lately, though I say I don't know that I would just go full raw onion between two pieces of bread.

00:30:23:21 - 00:30:34:06
Alana Villemez
I'll get the recipe for you. Yeah, maybe it was in some ghee or butter. I don't know, but it was a straight idea, so I'll let you know.

00:30:34:06 - 00:30:37:21
Alana Villemez
I'll let you go.

00:30:37:21 - 00:30:56:20
John Azoni
But yeah, brand exaggeration. You know, there's. There's one college I can think of. I won't say who they are, but they. I just see them. There's stuff pop up in my feed. They're like, we're the best. So and so school in the world, you know, come study at the best, such and such school in the world. And so I'm like, okay, so like one day I was like, I'm going to look up their rankings.

00:30:56:20 - 00:31:10:00
John Azoni
They weren't even in the top 100. They like, didn't even make the list. So it's like it's like you can't go around saying you're the best. And what you really mean is this school is my favorite because I work here, you know?

00:31:10:00 - 00:31:10:10
Alana Villemez
Right.

00:31:10:21 - 00:31:33:08
Alana Villemez
You know, Yes. It's it's the best because we believe it. And that's all fine and dandy. I think you can also pinpoint that from review is right. Like the most interesting thing to me recently that Amazon has done is if you go to buy something, I am totally influenced by influencers, by the way. I am like, All right, link, link, link, click, click, click, click, see things.

00:31:33:08 - 00:31:39:23
Alana Villemez
Anyway, they're all to Amazon, right? And it will tell you now, like this is a frequently returned item. Have you seen.

00:31:40:14 - 00:31:41:07
John Azoni
This, seen that?

00:31:41:21 - 00:32:03:16
Alana Villemez
And it's so discrediting to the item because before you would totally order it. But I'm like oh clearly other people were brought into it's false advertising, like it's so great, but it's frequently returned, so it's really not great. So that's just an example of how people are becoming more privy and Amazon being right, the playbook of being customer centric.

00:32:03:16 - 00:32:23:13
Alana Villemez
It's like, okay, if a lot of people are saying I would return this item, they're really advocating for the customer in that scenario, like giving them the information up front before the purchase, even though they are also trying to get a sale or promote that. So yeah, I'm I'm with you. I'm like, okay, I don't think the false advertising is the way anymore.

00:32:23:14 - 00:32:31:05
Alana Villemez
Things are really shifting in terms of what people like or what they don't, and they're pretty informed consumers at this point. So yeah.

00:32:31:12 - 00:32:51:16
John Azoni
Yeah, people are pretty savvy. I think especially, you know, starting someone this morning that's done a lot of gen-z research and she was saying that you can't base Gen Z as much as you think you can. Like they're going to know when you're BFFs and you know, they can go search on Reddit and it just does it takes 2 seconds to find the thread.

00:32:51:21 - 00:32:55:06
John Azoni
Yes. Or people are giving you the real scoop.

00:32:55:06 - 00:33:17:22
Alana Villemez
Yes. And that I just listen to something the other day that was talking about Nebraska State's slogan that I thought was so genius. It was it's not for everyone. That's was this statewide campaign, Nebraska. And it's like, yeah, people who love Nebraska are like, I love it. But yeah, that's also true. It's not for everyone. And I know I feel like that.

00:33:18:11 - 00:33:44:11
Alana Villemez
You know, that honesty, though, is what Gen Z and Gen Alpha two are looking for. They're like, Yeah, I want someone to be honest with me and not over promising this big grandiose thing that then I'm going to be disappointed in because they consume so much and they're aware of that. So exactly to your point, like it's not for everyone is maybe a better way to go, that we are the best number one in the world.

00:33:44:11 - 00:33:44:16
Alana Villemez
Yeah.

00:33:47:12 - 00:34:01:22
John Azoni
Yeah. Because that because that's again it's like what does that even mean? Like, you know, it's like saying integrity. It's like, how are you measuring that? Like, whose list is this on? Like, who listed the best colleges in the world, you know? And like, based on what you know.

00:34:02:07 - 00:34:04:01
Alana Villemez
I don't know.

00:34:04:01 - 00:34:15:11
John Azoni
I don't know. Based on, like, careers after graduation, we're talking about like, did you do surveys or something? It's just like there's no data. It's this it's just like you just decided that that was your favorite college.

00:34:15:11 - 00:34:16:18
Alana Villemez
So 100%.

00:34:17:04 - 00:34:24:23
John Azoni
But yeah, so and by the way, Nebraska is not for everyone. I agree.

00:34:24:23 - 00:34:35:20
Alana Villemez
Okay. That's one of the states I've never been to. I think it's like 36 now. I'm working my way up there. I got to go the northern route. But yeah, I haven't been. So I was.

00:34:36:01 - 00:34:57:06
John Azoni
Me my first job out of college was working for a nonprofit and we had this car that was like all decked out. It was like a we did homeless outreach, homeless outreach car. And and so we had to drive to this conference in Nevada, me and my best friend who worked together on this program, and we took this car that was all decked out with like the branding and stuff like that.

00:34:57:15 - 00:35:16:23
John Azoni
And we drove it across the country from Michigan to Reno. Yeah. And and it was such a fun trip. But I remember and I apologize to anyone that's listening from Nebraska, but I remember distinctly Nebraska being like, this is so like.

00:35:16:23 - 00:35:17:14
Alana Villemez
It's just.

00:35:19:15 - 00:35:20:13
John Azoni
Like, wow.

00:35:20:13 - 00:35:21:00
Alana Villemez
This is.

00:35:23:06 - 00:35:41:06
Alana Villemez
There are no mountains. Oh, well, my gosh, it's nothing like driving across the state to really get a good understanding of it. I think. I think that's the role. Before you make your judgment call, you have to drive fully across lengthwise or width. Was hamburger or hot dogs.

00:35:41:08 - 00:35:42:02
Alana Villemez
Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:43:21 - 00:35:56:03
John Azoni
I mean, that being said, you know south like Lower Michigan is not much to shake a stick at or whatever you know it's it's a lot of strip malls you know and like.

00:35:56:20 - 00:35:59:13
Alana Villemez
Yeah pros and cons. Pros and cons.

00:35:59:17 - 00:36:01:12
Alana Villemez
Yeah.

00:36:01:12 - 00:36:13:23
John Azoni
All right so brand dilution, brand undervaluation, brand exaggeration. Can you spotlight some community colleges that have executed this brand pyramid and, like, done these things, right?

00:36:14:12 - 00:36:34:03
Alana Villemez
Yeah, absolutely. And it's kind of hard to tell, to be honest with you. So I just go to the home page and I look at what they're highlighting on their home page, unless you work alongside them and can really pinpoint that. So one of them is Coastline College that I mentioned there in Southern California and Orange County. The other one is Milwaukee Area Technical College.

00:36:34:03 - 00:36:56:03
Alana Villemez
I think they've done a really good job of representing their brand, especially perception in their organic social media content. So they do a lot of ad hoc interviews with students like what are you doing for your job? Where are you going next? And they just do an excellent job on their content marketing. Bismarck State College is one of my favorites.

00:36:56:03 - 00:37:17:07
Alana Villemez
They actually captured this in their strategic plan. I also wrote about them, so that was more on the strategic planning side. But they went through a rebrand and their brand is done right, which I love. They're in North Dakota, so they I don't know if you've been to North Dakota, maybe. John, but okay, well, that's very like think of Fargo, right?

00:37:17:07 - 00:37:46:14
Alana Villemez
And just salt of the earth hard working. They rebranded to a polytechnic university. They've done a beautiful job on their website press release. They've done a great job in bringing out that that brand and really representing the core perception of what people are looking for from their college. And then the last one I would emphasize is Pasadena City College and they are also in Southern California, more L.A. than Orange County, but they have an awesome homepage right now.

00:37:46:14 - 00:38:11:04
Alana Villemez
It's like Pasadena. I'm not going to capture it correctly, but if you go to their homepage, it's great. They've got like, here are the four things that we do, and they have a landing page that you can go to that emphasizes that. And the other one I emphasize was St Petersburg College in Florida. So you can really easily look at your homepage and see like, okay, are we doing any one of these four and blenders is what I call them.

00:38:11:12 - 00:38:25:17
Alana Villemez
And is there a way that we can update our homepage to see even reflects some of the more offerings that our college has or make sure we're not exaggerating or make sure we have a unique differentiator so that that's really the core to this.

00:38:26:08 - 00:38:43:17
John Azoni
Love it. Awesome. Well, this has been fun to chat with you. So tell me where, like if any community colleges want to work with you. If we want to make this like your 101. Client, you know, or 120th, I don't know what number you're on here, but wherever they go.

00:38:44:07 - 00:39:03:09
Alana Villemez
They can go to my Web site. It's MLT, succeed, Dot com. If you want to go there and take a look at the Community College Promise framework or this article and subscribe, you certainly can. I'd love to have a free consultation call with anyone and you can also follow me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there, like all signed John.

00:39:03:09 - 00:39:16:06
Alana Villemez
That's where John and I got connected. So if you want to give a follow there to I'm all about conversations. So if you're looking for any kind of strategy, just let me know. Happy to oblige.

00:39:16:18 - 00:39:24:22
John Azoni
Awesome. Well, a lot of thanks so much for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom with us. We'll put the link to this article in the show notes, but appreciate you coming on.

00:39:25:07 - 00:39:28:17
Alana Villemez
Awesome. You too. Thanks so much, John. Looking forward to chatting.