Higher Ed Storytelling University

00:00:00:03 - 00:00:27:00
John Azoni
My guest today is Dr. Meghan Grace. Meghan is a generational expert, researcher, speaker, consultant and podcast host. For a decade, Meghan has been learning what shapes generations and makes generations tick. She's coauthor of a couple of books and a new one coming out as well, a third one on the topic. Well, the couple books are on the topic of Gen Z, Most recently, Generation Z goes to College, which we can chat more about as we get into things here.

00:00:27:00 - 00:00:28:08
John Azoni
But Meghan, welcome to the show.

00:00:29:02 - 00:00:30:20
Dr. Meghan Grace
Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

00:00:31:16 - 00:00:45:13
John Azoni
Awesome. So in this episode we're going to be zooming in on Gen Z, specifically how you should be strategizing your content in a way that will resonate with them. But first, I'd love to know what if something that people would be surprised to know about you.

00:00:46:08 - 00:01:03:11
Dr. Meghan Grace
So I don't know if it's a surprise or just like I don't talk about it enough. I grew up being a really competitive athlete, specifically competitive cheerleader, so I spent a lot of time in a cheer gym. But I think that's also where I learned a lot of my discipline at the beginning and how that kind of transitions into my.

00:01:04:01 - 00:01:21:13
Dr. Meghan Grace
I got injured when I was like 1314, so I quit in high school, learned to love different sports like tennis and learned other things. Like I stepped outside the gym. I was like, Whoa, there's other sports out there. But when I got to college, I actually missed being on a true team, and I joined our tour team at Chapman.

00:01:21:20 - 00:01:37:14
Dr. Meghan Grace
It was the first time I'd ever actually, like, sidelined tiered. So like, if you really like a football game, it's more it's not like the full competitive flipping and stuff that it's like more like punchline. It's like, I'm going to go out for this because I did competitive there. We don't tumble, we don't stunt. And I was like, All right.

00:01:37:19 - 00:01:56:19
Dr. Meghan Grace
So the first time I'd ever actually sidelined Richard was in college but was competitive cheerleader. And I loved it growing up until I got injured. And then in college is one of my favorite things. I got to do because I got to meet people from different phases of life that I wouldn't have probably normally. I got connected to the the athletics department, which is always a great place to be.

00:01:56:19 - 00:02:12:09
Dr. Meghan Grace
And I just feel like I had a very different flavor of school spirit having been a part of your team. So I loved it. And now I joke like I get to be people like cheerleader in life. I'm always the person. Like, if you ever need to be hyped up and you're like, I'm having a bad day. I'm like, Let me tell you four great things about yourself.

00:02:12:18 - 00:02:20:20
Dr. Meghan Grace
That's just who I am. So, yeah, competitive cheerleader, reformed into sideline cheerleader. Now just professional life. Cheerleader.

00:02:21:05 - 00:02:25:09
John Azoni
Love that. Do were you like, did they call it a flier like you for like a.

00:02:25:22 - 00:02:40:19
Dr. Meghan Grace
No no, no, no. So, like, it's my dad will tell the story like, I'm not very tall. I'm like, five, three. And as a kid, I was really short. And so you think, Oh, that's the that's the girl that's going to be the flier. I was a flier for precisely one practice before I got dropped. And I was like, I'm going to keep it on the ground.

00:02:40:19 - 00:02:55:12
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so, like, I actually just trained really like strength training as a kid so that I was able to, like, lift people that were taller than me, bigger than me. So I was what they call a main base, which is like, you're not the tallest one, but you put a lot of the energy underneath like a lift before it goes up.

00:02:55:12 - 00:03:03:01
Dr. Meghan Grace
So all my fliers were all my fliers were taller than me, mostly because I didn't want to get dropped, but I never dropped anybody. So.

00:03:03:07 - 00:03:13:04
John Azoni
Okay, awesome. I did watch with my wife. That is it called Cheer that show over. I can't. It was a while ago that we watched it, but that was fascinating for me.

00:03:13:04 - 00:03:13:22
Dr. Meghan Grace
I'm like, It is.

00:03:14:05 - 00:03:21:06
John Azoni
I'm like, so tired watching them. Like, do it like a full out situation. I'm like, I could never like.

00:03:21:13 - 00:03:38:20
Dr. Meghan Grace
My husband wouldn't watch it with me because of the person I would become watching the practice, watching them do their all out, like do go in a competition. Like I was standing up, pacing, like getting secondary anxiety for these athletes and I would come out and he's like, he's like, did they? Do they win? And I was like, That's not how it works.

00:03:39:18 - 00:03:48:20
Dr. Meghan Grace
So he would he wouldn't watch it with me because of just my background with it. And it's like former competitive cheerleaders now. It's just like it's a weird, different world. But yes, like cheer the documentary.

00:03:49:12 - 00:04:00:17
John Azoni
Okay, cool. Well, good to know. I love it. I love knowing that about you now. So tell me about your background with Gen Z research, how you got to where you are today. I love to hear kind of your journey with that.

00:04:01:04 - 00:04:23:02
Dr. Meghan Grace
Yeah, like some great things in life. It was an accident. I was working on college campus and working in a student affairs role and one day our students just felt different and like, what's going on here? And my research partner and coauthor, we were coworkers at the time. She's actually a department head of mine, and we realized it was a different generation, just completely different group of people.

00:04:23:02 - 00:04:44:07
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so we were trying to create millennial leadership development experiences for Gen Z leaders, and we knew that we needed to make some changes. So we did what people in higher education do, which is we learned about our students through study. And we really thought that it was going to be a study that would turn into a like a report or maybe some conference presentations.

00:04:44:07 - 00:05:11:16
Dr. Meghan Grace
But it ended up we generated enough information that we wrote our first book in 2015 and released that. And so we've just been on this train of understanding Gen Z since 2014, and we've written a few books and then we've done a few more studies since then. And now we currently co-lead the Institute for Generational Research in Education, where we really have a mission of helping people understand generations and then fostering environments where different generations can collaborate.

00:05:11:22 - 00:05:34:19
Dr. Meghan Grace
And that really comes from develop really solid research and a knowledge base around generations and how they're shaped so that we can create environments that empower generations and create those collaborative experiences. So we do have our next book coming out later this year, generations of the world of Work, where we're going to be helping people navigate balancing multiple generations in the workplace because we know that that is a one.

00:05:34:21 - 00:06:00:02
Dr. Meghan Grace
That's where Gen Z is heading right now. They're not already there, but it's we've got four generations in the workplace and trying to balance the different perspectives and needs of each generation while eliciting their strengths. Take some intentionality. So we're excited to release that here pretty soon. But it was just one of those things that I think how I got here today is that about ten years ago we just wondered about our students and we had a desire to know them better and how we could better serve them.

00:06:00:08 - 00:06:01:19
Dr. Meghan Grace
And we never stopped doing that.

00:06:02:10 - 00:06:04:18
John Azoni
What were some of the changes that you were noticing?

00:06:05:10 - 00:06:26:04
Dr. Meghan Grace
They would they would come to orientation and their questions were just so different and not in a bad way. They were just they were different. And the questions we would get at orientations from students previously. So we saw that really big shift when we had students coming up to our table to learn about our leadership experiences and being very pointed around like, Well, how will this leadership experience create social change in the community?

00:06:26:04 - 00:06:43:17
Dr. Meghan Grace
And we're like, actually, that's the third that's the focus of the third year of the program. But you're coming in not even a fully enrolled first year student asking about that, and that was one of them. And then the really big thing was like, Well, how is this going to prepare me for my future career? When will I be able to start doing career development opportunities?

00:06:43:17 - 00:06:59:06
Dr. Meghan Grace
And we're like, that was usually, again, our juniors and seniors that were part of the program. It naturally made sense that they were asking about that and they were. They're ready for those kind of conversations because a lot of times of frustrations, right? I just want to make friends and I want to have something to be involved in.

00:06:59:06 - 00:07:02:23
Dr. Meghan Grace
And these students are like, Yeah, I want to have friends and be involved, but I also want to change the world and get a job.

00:07:03:17 - 00:07:04:11
John Azoni
That's interesting.

00:07:04:17 - 00:07:05:10
Dr. Meghan Grace
So early.

00:07:05:22 - 00:07:28:17
John Azoni
Yeah, because I because when I went to college, I wasn't asking stuff like that. I just kind of was like floating down the river of like, you graduate high school. I always knew I was going to go to college, so I, you know, I went to art school, but I was never like I was never asking, like, really critical questions about, like, my job opportunities after or like, opportunities to change the world or anything.

00:07:28:17 - 00:07:52:22
John Azoni
It was more just about like, what's this college experience going to be like meeting people and stuff like that. So that's interesting. So talk about some of like Gen Z skepticism of institutions, like how, how does that influence their decision making when when choosing a college? How should colleges and we'll get more into content too but like know how should colleges start to address this in their content?

00:07:53:13 - 00:08:15:16
Dr. Meghan Grace
I think the skepticism of Gen Z is sometimes a little bit misunderstood. They're not like anti college or they're not anti the university experience. They just want to know it's a worthwhile investment of their time in their money. And so asking the questions around how is it going to impact my future career development and how can I change the world by being here that's uniquely a Gen Z thing.

00:08:15:19 - 00:08:31:21
Dr. Meghan Grace
But they're just asking it a lot earlier because they are potentially like you and I, floating down the river, being like, Yeah, we're going to enjoy college and we'll figure it out later. They're like, I don't have the time to or the money to afford to figure it out later, and I want to figure it out now and I want it to be right.

00:08:32:05 - 00:08:55:10
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so I think their skepticism is actually a little bit more of informed consumerism. What I think of it as like when you go buy a car, you don't just go like, I think I want something with four wheels. Let's see what happens, right? Like, it's like you have a pretty good idea that you're about to go spend tens of thousands of dollars on something and what you want in your when you want the features in that consumer mindset is something that Gen Z is bringing into their college.

00:08:55:16 - 00:09:14:22
Dr. Meghan Grace
The way that they're looking at college, not only from an admissions perspective, but when they're at campus. Like is this really returning on what you said you were going to do? And I think a piece of it is they were skeptical as we continue to see rising costs of college and then also not really be able to prove the impact of going to college.

00:09:14:22 - 00:09:34:06
Dr. Meghan Grace
Like, yes, we can say like, yeah, you're going to get a job or you're going to earn more than other people. But I think that that is starting to be diminished as we see a bit of knowledge being democratized in the world that, you know, to be a successful computer coder, you don't necessarily have to go to college and you can still make a very good amount of money.

00:09:34:13 - 00:09:52:22
Dr. Meghan Grace
There are some, like skilled trades that are outpacing college graduates and how much they earn, right? Like I know how much I pay my electrician, I know how much I pay my plumber. And those are critical people in our society and they are from an earnings perspective, making the same amount, if not more, than some average college graduates.

00:09:53:06 - 00:10:11:20
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so I think that Gen Z started to see that really early on. We saw like the first wave of Gen Z becoming a part of higher education. And now we're really seeing that that skepticism looks a little bit more like maybe I'm opting out or I'm taking the gap year, but then I'm not really gauging or I'm starting and then I'm not finishing because I don't.

00:10:11:20 - 00:10:30:00
Dr. Meghan Grace
I built my business already and I'm making six figures while I'm in college because I think there's just so many earnings opportunity. And so this idea of you go to college to get a job is not always promised any more. Because we also saw the millennial generation, especially the second half of the millennial generation, that that job that was high paying was not promised.

00:10:30:10 - 00:10:50:11
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so that that brand piece for higher education as an entire industry got really broken to say if you if you go to college, you get the degree, you will get a good job, because we know that that is not true. As we see half a generation that was underemployed, underpaid and is still playing career catch up, Gen Z was watching that.

00:10:50:11 - 00:11:01:07
Dr. Meghan Grace
They might have only been 12, 13, 14, but they were seeing that being like, why can my older cousin who has a bachelor's get a good job and why are they just I don't want to use the the stereotype. Why are they just working for minimum wage as a barista?

00:11:01:14 - 00:11:02:03
John Azoni
Mm hmm.

00:11:02:03 - 00:11:15:16
Dr. Meghan Grace
Yeah. So they see that and they're like, We don't want to do that. I want to be sure that I'm going to be able to get what I need out of this place and that I'm going to be set up to navigate the world effectively. And they're skeptical about that. And it's not just they're skeptical about higher education as an institution.

00:11:15:17 - 00:11:32:00
Dr. Meghan Grace
They sort of just like don't trust institutions in general. So like, no, no institution is safe. The way that I look at it, the government, you're not safe like the medical industry, You're not safe housing industry, you're not safe. Gen Z is skeptical because they're looking at a lot of the world's problems and being like, Does it have to be this way?

00:11:32:10 - 00:11:52:15
John Azoni
Yeah. And you wrote a report for ology a few years ago called The Campus of Tomorrow. There's one quote I pulled out of here. The common argument that a college education will lead to a higher will lead to higher pay doesn't hold as much weight with this generation as more than half of them report that they already have a source of income through side hustles and freelancing, investing or content creation.

00:11:52:21 - 00:12:17:04
John Azoni
I think that's really true and I think probably even more so exaggerated by the the pandemic. When you saw all of these like, you know, all of these side hustles, you know, people starting Etsy accounts and like, you know, Etsy shops and like digital marketing agencies and, you know, just finding all kinds of ways to make money, doing content creations, stuff like that.

00:12:17:16 - 00:12:39:07
John Azoni
Yeah, it starts to make, you know, the the barrier for entry to making really good money is a lot lower, you know, because, because if you create an income stream that takes off I mean there's there's some people on Etsy making six figures a month. You know, and it's like, what am I get? What do I need college for?

00:12:40:03 - 00:12:56:07
Dr. Meghan Grace
Well, and, you know, I had a I had a conversation with a good friend of mine who works in fraternity life at University of Florida. She says she knows who she is. She's like, I've got some women coming through recruitment that are already making six figures a year. And I'm kind of like, What are you doing here? But you've got millions of followers.

00:12:56:07 - 00:13:15:14
Dr. Meghan Grace
Like, What are you doing going through sorority recruitment and not like saying like, you should do it right? Like everyone can have their own experience, but it's why people are going to college. I think we need to have a really strong understanding of like when there's so many options to monetize your knowledge, even at 18 years old or to monetize your experience.

00:13:15:14 - 00:13:35:06
Dr. Meghan Grace
Why are you even in college? And I think we'll see that permeate also into as we're seeing it already with like to not let chicks with analyze stuff and some of those students are pulling in millions of dollars a year. Well, being a college athlete, which is like unheard of. And I just think the ability to make money is very different.

00:13:35:06 - 00:13:49:12
Dr. Meghan Grace
And it accelerated very quickly and this generation paid attention to it. And that's going to continue to put pressure on colleges and universities to say like this is worthwhile and it's not just of your money anymore, it's of your time and attention. This is worthwhile.

00:13:49:18 - 00:13:50:03
John Azoni
Yeah.

00:13:50:03 - 00:13:51:09
Dr. Meghan Grace
And why is it worthwhile?

00:13:51:23 - 00:14:15:05
John Azoni
Yeah. And the whole entrepreneurial thing is interesting. It seems like it's getting younger and younger. Like I'm getting once in a while I'll get one of these like, reels in my Instagram feed. It's like a like a 12 or 13 year old kid and he's like, like giving financial advice. He's like, he's like, what is the one I saw where he's like, If you walk into a restaurant, you shouldn't be thinking how can I afford to eat here?

00:14:15:05 - 00:14:28:04
John Azoni
You should be thinking, How can I own this restaurant in five years? Or like, Oh my God, you're 12. What are you? Or you? You can't even afford to pay for a meal at the restaurant right now.

00:14:28:22 - 00:14:33:04
Dr. Meghan Grace
But they can. They probably can. That's the thing. It's wild.

00:14:33:04 - 00:14:57:11
John Azoni
Yeah, It's just it's just like the possibility for income streams is like, just more, more open now, you know, with the Internet and just, you know, ways to make money. It's so interesting, you know, marketing departments at colleges. What are some like assumptions that they have in how to address this population? What are maybe some misconceptions that they have about Gen Z preferences for for content and storytelling?

00:14:57:23 - 00:15:19:20
Dr. Meghan Grace
I think that we're evolving, but there are some spaces where it's just like, if we're online, that's enough. Like if we're in a digital space, that's enough. If we sometimes, you know, have our president put out a video, that's enough. I think that, yes, you have to be in digital spaces to get like that is where Gen Z is going to gather information, but you have to be doing more.

00:15:20:02 - 00:15:43:18
Dr. Meghan Grace
But when I say doing more, you have to be doing it right. And what is right changes what feels like on a weekly basis. But what I think I see is a pitfall or misconception is that sometimes universities try to do the trend right, like they try to do the trend. That's really cool at the moment and then it falls flat because it was more or less created by a bunch of like, let's say not Gen Z or Psych, right?

00:15:43:18 - 00:16:03:20
Dr. Meghan Grace
So like, I think if we're if we're going to do the trend, we have to engage the people that potentially created the trend to put our university spin on it and not just trying to think we're doing the trend. And so like as we have the different like means and different things that cycle in and, you know, tick tock and all the different the trends that are happening, not just doing the trend but doing the trend that feels right for us.

00:16:04:02 - 00:16:21:02
Dr. Meghan Grace
And sometimes we don't have to do every trend. That's the other thing. We don't have to do every trend, but we can do the ones that make sense for us and that don't feel forced and like we're trying to be like we're just trying to be a part of the zeitgeist. So like one of the people that I've come across in my work interactions is a former students at Vanderbilt, and we were both there at the same time.

00:16:21:09 - 00:16:40:00
Dr. Meghan Grace
He now runs a Gen Z market research firm. He's doing amazing things. I love the work that he does with his company, but he made a really good point. Like when the whole like Brat Summer came out and like all these brands, we're like, we are also brands. Like was really good about being like, we're not all like, maybe you have to like you.

00:16:40:00 - 00:16:55:18
Dr. Meghan Grace
We can't just slap the green on it with that, that the text and be like, we're brand right? And sometimes I think institutions feel sucked into like let's do the easy trend when I'm like do the trend that makes sense and like lean into it in a fun way, in a way that is make sense for your brand.

00:16:55:18 - 00:16:59:00
Dr. Meghan Grace
Don't was Bieber out because like it was the thing we were all doing the summer.

00:16:59:13 - 00:17:03:20
John Azoni
Can't be like our nursing program is very demure very mindful you know.

00:17:04:21 - 00:17:05:04
Dr. Meghan Grace
Like.

00:17:05:23 - 00:17:06:14
John Azoni
I personally.

00:17:06:14 - 00:17:28:20
Dr. Meghan Grace
Like I kind of really like some brat nurses personally. They take really good care of you. They get a little chaotic with the doctors. I love that. But, you know, you can't just do every every trend. There is one university that I like that whoever is in charge of their marketing for their social media and their ability to do trends and get them passed by legal is I never want to meet this person because like, I'm it'd be like the Wizard of Oz.

00:17:28:20 - 00:17:54:14
Dr. Meghan Grace
But at John Hopkins, like they're so good at being like we're on trend with a public health message. It's funny. It's like they're so fast and they it's never forced it. Is it always like it always feels just perfectly right. So like they're an example of higher education group that is doing the the trends appropriately and they lean into being like, we're a health institution, we're really good at medicine.

00:17:54:14 - 00:17:59:18
Dr. Meghan Grace
Let's make everything educational and trendy and funny. So they do a really good job there.

00:18:00:05 - 00:18:23:21
John Azoni
Yeah, and I don't know the person or the people that do that over at Johns Hopkins, but I imagine to really succeed with trends, you have to have a Gen Z person in the room, you know, like it's it's very obvious when, you know, a millennial or a Gen Xer is writing a script versus when, you know, Gen Z wrote the script.

00:18:23:21 - 00:18:45:05
John Azoni
It's like, you know, or trying to do these trends. Yeah, it's really some of the, some of the best schools that I've seen. You know, they have such a strong TikTok and real presence and stuff like that. They're being led by if not students, but by like people that somewhat recently graduated from college and are consumers of the platform, like they understand it, you know.

00:18:46:20 - 00:19:15:12
Dr. Meghan Grace
But I think that and we can get to that a little bit later like some of the best universities with like with a social media presence walk the line of what do young consumers want that our students and our perspective and our perspective members like, what will our alumni who also still follow this Instagram or potentially follow us on different different spaces also one And how do you balance the multi-generational perspective while being like this is an outward facing situation?

00:19:15:12 - 00:19:25:07
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so I think the ones that do really well recognize the need for nuance in their audiences, but also prioritizing who gets that content and who's going to engage with that content.

00:19:25:20 - 00:19:48:02
John Azoni
So what kind of content do you think is most effective for for Gen Z? When we think about content, like, I mean, we've been talking largely about like, you know, tiktoks and stuff like that, but like, are blogs relevant for Gen Z? Are long form videos relevant? Are there other forms of content that, you know, email that might be surprising to people?

00:19:48:02 - 00:19:51:12
John Azoni
Where should schools start to focus when they think about content creation?

00:19:51:18 - 00:20:14:12
Dr. Meghan Grace
I think what Gen Z is looking for. So to to give you the the backdrop of any decision we're making with Gen Z as it comes to gathering their attention is that there's so much competition for their eyeballs, for their attention, for their engagement, for their money. And so to break through what feels like a very crowded space, not just just higher education, but like in general, like they're being sold something all the time.

00:20:14:12 - 00:20:32:23
Dr. Meghan Grace
We all are is finding avenues that can make it feel like a personal connection. So whether it is an email campaign, which I don't think they're done, they shouldn't be. The only way that we're trying to attract this generation. It needs to feel personal. It needs to feel student to student, instead of being like, I am the dean of the college of blah, blah, blah.

00:20:33:05 - 00:20:56:12
Dr. Meghan Grace
It might feel better if it's coming from Stephanie, the junior that's studying marketing, right? Like having that voice feel like it's coming from a peer. When we think about video content, they want to see themselves. And I'm not saying like they need to like it needs to be the peer that looks exactly like them, addresses exactly like them, but they need to find that resonance that it's something that is driven and designed for them and by them, and that is so important.

00:20:56:12 - 00:21:32:23
Dr. Meghan Grace
But I think that regardless of what platform or what what method you're trying to engage is if it needs to feel personalized and it needs to feel in touch, not just mass marketing, I think the mass marketing assumes that one understands your brand and two understands what you're selling. And I think that where higher education needs to go in general is actually more distinction being how are we different and in a positive way and not in a competitive way, but how do we stand out and how do we make that a personalized experience for people to understand that and content that is is educational and fun so that people can learn about the brand.

00:21:33:07 - 00:22:00:17
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so I mean, I don't think it's necessarily dead, but I don't think it's the number one way that we need to be engaging Gen Z consumers, their parents and their family members 1,000%. If you are not doing intentional email marketing to parents and family members about your experience, whether it's from a pre admissions or post enrollment perspective, you are missing an opportunity to engage a very critical like, valuable group of people that influences the decisions of Gen Z.

00:22:01:03 - 00:22:33:08
Dr. Meghan Grace
When we're thinking purely like video and online content, I think we have to take the case study of tick tock, not just in the that's where they go to be entertained, but that's how their brain has been trained recently to consume information. And so they're consuming so much information on Tick Tock and Snapchat and these very what feel kind of like rough cut type content in 30 seconds I think anything passed a minute for this generation feels long and so it's it's bite sized it's engaging and it's also allowing them to get what they need to get in a short amount of time.

00:22:33:12 - 00:22:58:04
Dr. Meghan Grace
However, that needs to lead to something else. So if they like that one bite sized piece, can they go to a larger profile to then potentially go down a rabbit hole of looking at maybe it is a college or universities student life real of everything they've got about student life in the campus experience, Right. Because what we know about Gen Z is once they start to like something within an algorithm, it gets fed to them more and more.

00:22:58:09 - 00:23:15:09
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so the ability to go down a rabbit hole is much easier with the way that social media is feeding consumers content. So I think that that is being prepared to allow people to go on a rabbit hole and not just like one and done like we did this great thing about these students that did this like service impact trip.

00:23:15:11 - 00:23:35:21
Dr. Meghan Grace
Okay, well, we might need three or four. It might need to be a mini series so that you can get part two, part three, part four of that experience. And maybe it does have different students that are involved in featuring the different parts of the video series. But I think it's it's taking what is potentially a longer story and breaking it up into micro episodes, if I could put it that way.

00:23:36:08 - 00:23:37:05
John Azoni
Yeah, that's smart.

00:23:37:06 - 00:23:37:19
Dr. Meghan Grace
Because.

00:23:38:00 - 00:24:00:15
John Azoni
Because like, yeah, one thing I notice about how I consume content on Tik Tok, it's mostly on Tik Tok. I feel like where they do these episodic like part one, you know, there's some big hook, you know, crazy moment with a police officer or something like that. And then, and then you're going to only get like a quarter of the story before you have to go to their profile and find the one you just watched and look at the next one.

00:24:00:21 - 00:24:20:00
John Azoni
But, yeah, I mean, I notice I'm like all the time. I'm like, oh, I'm, I want to see what happens. And I go to their profile and then I'm like, looking for what's the one I just watched? I'm like, scrolling through and then I'm subconsciously getting a sense for like, what is this brand or account about? Is this content that I want more of?

00:24:20:08 - 00:24:45:10
John Azoni
You know, it's like getting them over to your TikTok, like profile or something like that. That's a good little tip of like, you know, having these like part one, part two type things. Because, because I think too, like the challenge with, you know, the scrolling culture is like, you could say something that maybe hooks them, you know, hooks a younger generation or makes them laugh or makes them gets them into the comment section or something like that.

00:24:45:10 - 00:25:04:21
John Azoni
But it's also just like it's just like one blip in their whole day of like pieces of content that they're consuming. It's just it's, it's so easy for me and people younger than me to just be like, That's funny. Okay, next, next, next, next. And you And it's hard to get something to stick, you know? Yeah.

00:25:04:21 - 00:25:29:07
Dr. Meghan Grace
And I think it's changing. It's changing the nature. Well, it's something that, like engagement metrics are constantly changing. But the one that we know that is, especially if anything meta driven, is is it shareable? Because we're actually finding that the greater tie into content that creates conversation is not the comment section. It's did I share this with my friend and did we talk about it?

00:25:29:11 - 00:25:41:12
Dr. Meghan Grace
So if I share it with my friend in the DM and then we had like a five minute conversation about it that is stickier in the human brain than yeah, I just put some clapping emojis in the chat and moved our in the comments and moved on.

00:25:41:22 - 00:26:02:10
John Azoni
Right. Oh my wife and I have entire like we've made entire parenting decisions based on, you know, Instagram rules that we sent to each other. It's like, it's like that's how it's like if someone else says it, then it's okay. Like, then it holds some weight. You know, it's sort of like, oh, this thing that we're always doing with our kids, we shouldn't do that.

00:26:02:10 - 00:26:33:10
John Azoni
Or like, you know, or like the stickiest one for us. Four years ago, we got above ground pool and so now we're like really conscious of like, like our kids are good swimmers, but like, we're the party house now. So in summer, like all the neighborhood kids coming over swimming. And then I got this one real that was like, if everyone's watching the pool, nobody's watching, you know, And, and it talked about how like, how easy it is for, like, a kid to drown even when all the parents are standing around talking to each other.

00:26:33:10 - 00:26:51:13
John Azoni
So, like, that has been like the real of the summer where we keep referencing that one of like, remember, like one person has to be designated to be watching the pool and we talk about that real to like other, you know, friends parents that come over so they know like, hey, this is important to us. Like we're going to watch your kid, you know?

00:26:53:04 - 00:27:22:11
Dr. Meghan Grace
Yeah. In my opinion, I think it is changing. Yes, the comment section does matter. But I also find that people that like take the time to comment are either like very positive or very negative. No one's like, this is a neutral comment. All right. Like it's going on between the conversation that I think matters is the one that happens in private in the DMS section, whether it's sending it to the group chat or it's sending it to your partner or your best friend, your roommate, it's saying this affirms something or I find this funny or I find this insightful and I think you will too.

00:27:22:11 - 00:27:33:22
Dr. Meghan Grace
And then it opens up the conversation. And so I think that if there's the guidance we can provide in terms of content creators, our education is, is this sticky enough for someone else to share?

00:27:34:06 - 00:27:53:18
John Azoni
Right. Yeah, I think about that a lot lately. You know, when I examine like, you know, I would scrolling on LinkedIn and a lot of times it's hard to find things that are actually interesting because so much on LinkedIn is like, what goes through my mind is like, who is this for? Like, who did you think was going to really geek out about this certification that you got?

00:27:53:23 - 00:28:17:01
John Azoni
You know, like, you know, And so like, yeah, that's, that's kind of what has been my mantra probably the last six months or the last year is like when I create my content, like, am I giving anyone a reason to share this? Because they also believe this and they want their audience to believe it too. Or is this just kind of like a hey, cool, I did this like moving on, you know?

00:28:17:09 - 00:28:37:16
John Azoni
So I think that's a really important point for for content creation in general. And content strategy is like, what are the. Yeah, like you said, what is going to get someone to share this? Because when something gets shared, it's, it's the emotion is spreading, you know and, and yeah that stickiness that you talked about so short form vertical contexts got that.

00:28:38:05 - 00:28:49:05
John Azoni
Is there a place for longform video like should colleges that are trying to reach a Gen Z audience be on YouTube with a long form strategy as well?

00:28:49:11 - 00:29:15:04
Dr. Meghan Grace
I think I ask the question like, why and who is watching the longform? And like, what is the purpose? I think that I mean, YouTube is the like we need it, but in terms of like, what is that exist for? And I don't know if they're going to be watching it to be inspired. I don't know if that's like what we considered the place like, right, I need to go watch an inspirational YouTube video for my university or is that something that can live in Instagram and pieces?

00:29:15:07 - 00:29:41:09
Dr. Meghan Grace
I don't know. I don't know if one firm is necessarily gone entirely. I think that what is included there. So when I think about like a long form video that could fit, it's probably already for the engaged population, but it's probably not a public video. So this is where my background is going to come in. But like if we're doing an instructional video for how to get the most out of your orientation experience, there are, we already have their commitment dollars.

00:29:41:09 - 00:29:59:11
Dr. Meghan Grace
They're in the door. This is something where we do actually probably want them to sit and watch the full five minute video about how to get the most of the orientation experience because it's instructional and we need them. It's critical information and we don't want it to be bite sized because they might miss one of the bites and it could be the most critical bite about like what time to show up, right?

00:29:59:11 - 00:30:19:12
Dr. Meghan Grace
So it's the time in the place, I think, for anything that is instructional. And we want it to be pretty well buttoned up and we don't want there to be any missed messages. That is where I think longform can come into place. Other than that, I think it's encouraging people to think differently about how do you pack the punch or how do you create a series?

00:30:19:18 - 00:30:36:10
Dr. Meghan Grace
Because that's just where the world is that I know as a videographer you don't want to hear that, but it is the changing nature of how people are like watching things. I mean, realistically, it's a it's not just Gen Z, it's just the way that the world has structured content. Everything is a 30 minute episode now for a reason.

00:30:36:17 - 00:30:43:23
Dr. Meghan Grace
Anything past 30 minutes on Netflix, you're like, Well, I got to schedule this in advance to watch this, right? Yeah, it's tough to have the attention span.

00:30:44:06 - 00:31:02:03
John Azoni
And yeah, and as a videographer, yeah, I think I have a vested interest in people watching the, like longer form stuff. But also I'm, I'm always like on the lookout for like what is the longform stuff that's engaging? Like, what do I go to YouTube for? What does someone from Gen Z go to YouTube for? People are going there to learn a lot.

00:31:02:03 - 00:31:24:00
John Azoni
I mean, if you talk about this like entrepreneurial DIY type stuff, like, you know, whenever I because I have some side hustles, I've learned everything about my side hustles from YouTube, you know, for whatever reason right now I'm like super down this rabbit hole of like how big the universe is and like, you know, space and stuff like that and like black holes.

00:31:24:00 - 00:31:52:04
John Azoni
I was listening to some video yesterday about how black holes work and what we know about them. They're just fascinating to me. And it was this one professor from the University of Manchester or something, something in the UK, but that stuck with me because I'm like, Oh, that's cool that this guy is like, like if I were going to college, I would, I would think that'd be kind of cool to like, go if I was like going to go study this thing to, like, go to the place where this expert in black holes, you know, is.

00:31:52:04 - 00:32:11:10
John Azoni
Yeah. And I see I see a lot of schools doing that. University of Chicago does a great job, I think, of providing like educational content that's like really niche niche research and stuff like that. But you're right, I think the people that are going to engage with like a student or alumni testimonial are the people that are already pretty dialed in pretty bottom of funnel.

00:32:11:10 - 00:32:42:13
John Azoni
That's not going to just show up in someone's feed in some random person can be like, Oh, I would love to hear about Mary's story right now. You know? You know, it's like as a storyteller, I don't even care unless I am like about to buy a product or something. And I want to, you know, then I care about other people's experiences and but like, you know, the time that you look at reviews and see if, like our other people like you purchasing this water bottle or purchasing whatever, that's like very bottom of funnel, you know.

00:32:42:13 - 00:33:00:12
John Azoni
So that's why I always preach like you have to have a tick tock Instagram real strategy that has nothing to do with selling your school because you're not going to get anyone down that funnel. You know, you're not going to attract people from way up top of the funnel with, you know, Daniel Storey, you know, because like, no one cares.

00:33:00:12 - 00:33:01:17
John Azoni
One, I know this in the care.

00:33:02:02 - 00:33:26:07
Dr. Meghan Grace
I think the schools that are doing a good job of selling their university, selling right through Tick Tock or realize is that they're not hard selling, they're just showcasing what's already happening. They're like, kids are going to go to a football game on a Saturday. They're going to class on a Tuesday. Right. Like that is what's happening. They're giving you a not behind the scenes, but they're kind of like giving you a reality show version of like what's already happening there.

00:33:26:07 - 00:33:41:20
Dr. Meghan Grace
They're pulling the curtain back. And I think that's really the only place that, like, reels and tiktoks can exist is like pulling the curtain back to be like, This is what life is like. You're not necessarily like, let us put on the razzle dazzle show that this is like, I just I don't think that that's where it's going to be.

00:33:42:02 - 00:33:49:13
Dr. Meghan Grace
It's a place for people who are already bought in to connect to it and then people who are like, that's interesting to get a little taste of it.

00:33:50:00 - 00:34:09:16
John Azoni
Yeah, and I notice because I've done a lot of research in the last year of what's working in higher ed video. And one of the themes that I found was these Day in the Life videos and NYU seems to be associated with a lot of them, but it's these YouTube influencers often they already have some existing following, but they'll do these like, you know, casual day in the life.

00:34:09:16 - 00:34:42:01
John Azoni
Get ready with me. Here I am, I'm riding my bike to class, whatever, and they're like 20 minutes long and they have like so many views, hundreds of thousands of views and tons and tons of comments in some of these. You look at the comments and it's like over and over. It's like, Oh, like, thank you for doing this video because I was going to go to NYU and I was wondering what like in New York life was like, you know, and it's people that are already kind of like they're already dialed in and you're just kind of you're just answering questions for them through your video content.

00:34:42:08 - 00:34:54:03
John Azoni
But like, yes, someone like me that has no business considering going to college right now, I'm not necessarily going to watch a 20 minute video of someone putting their makeup on.

00:34:54:03 - 00:34:54:22
Dr. Meghan Grace
Getting ready for the day.

00:34:55:04 - 00:35:16:00
John Azoni
Yeah. So one of the questions I had is like, what kind of content should colleges kind of on that note, what kind of kind is your college would be creating in order to not just capture attention but like sustain it over time? Like how can we build community with Gen Z through our content and not just like, you know, or how that's funny.

00:35:16:08 - 00:35:23:05
John Azoni
Keep them moving. I know. Are you talking about like episodic content, but are there other ways that we can kind of sustain that connection over time?

00:35:23:11 - 00:35:41:05
Dr. Meghan Grace
Yeah, I think it's I mean, yes, like they get ready with me as a certain like content format type, but it is like what's a day in the life like? And that is critical for your incoming student, but it's also like something that your current students like. Yeah, I like Vanderbilt. We like to make fun of like the very aggressive squirrels, right?

00:35:41:05 - 00:36:04:23
Dr. Meghan Grace
So like, they always have aggressive squirrel content at some point for Vanderbilt students and it changes format, right? But it's like if you went to campus, you know there is aggressive squirrels and so like alumni understand that. Current students understand that and incoming students are like, do I need squirrels? Right, Right. Like, they're intrigued by it. But it's this day in the life you don't really you just avoid them the day in the life kind of content.

00:36:04:23 - 00:36:28:04
Dr. Meghan Grace
I think whatever format it takes shape is just like, what is it like to be here? What is it like to be in this experience? And that is any phase of life where a student or past student is going to connect to that. So I think like that is one piece of the content that matters there. The other piece that I think that sometimes higher ed misses the mark, which really matters to Gen Z is how do people make an impact here?

00:36:28:09 - 00:36:39:01
Dr. Meghan Grace
Yeah, we are so good at being like we have the world's leading research firms and they have solved almost cancer, right? Like they have fixed almost the world's problems. And it is some.

00:36:39:10 - 00:36:40:05
John Azoni
Of those kids are.

00:36:40:16 - 00:37:00:00
Dr. Meghan Grace
Five year olds, right? Like 55 year old. Like it is like somebody that is barely teaches students. It is not the professor that is in the first year classes with the students. It is someone that barely sees the face of a student under the age of 24 ever. And we're like, That's how we're saying the impact is being made.

00:37:00:05 - 00:37:25:16
Dr. Meghan Grace
What about the students that are raising money for nonprofits or that are serving local organizations as mentors to youth or the students that are doing really impactful interdisciplinary study programs that allow them to be a part of model you in? And they're doing some really great stuff to advocate for policy in the local environment. So I just think there's a lot of opportunity that's existing that students are doing naturally to create impact.

00:37:25:22 - 00:37:45:01
Dr. Meghan Grace
It's just not it's not this like huge medical advancement that we see sometimes that is promoted, I think that here's a free one for all the universities out there right now. The elections are going to be coming up and people are very scared of them. But civic engagement in, a very nonpartisan perspective, is something that we should be highlighting.

00:37:45:11 - 00:38:09:16
Dr. Meghan Grace
So when our students are doing the Rock the Vote events or doing voter campaigns, voter sign up campaigns or encouraging people to do various different types of civic engagement, that is the stuff they should be sharing. These are students trying to do something in their local environment and in their local community. And so like definitely like let's promote Election Day, Let's show how young people are getting out there and using their right to vote regardless of who they vote for.

00:38:09:16 - 00:38:27:20
Dr. Meghan Grace
Right? That is the things that Gen Z cares about is that young people like them are doing good things to change the world. Yeah, and they want to see those stories. And the thing is like this is a very untapped market in my opinion, because these stories exist on a campus, whether they're being told or not, because students are already doing it.

00:38:28:04 - 00:38:48:04
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so I think those are the things that are going to be more compelling from a how does this university create impact perspective that would probably have more traction with young people? Then again, no shade to the brilliant scientist, the brilliant faculty member that's doing all of this great research. That's just probably not going to resonate with your 18 year old like they're going to like.

00:38:48:04 - 00:39:06:04
Dr. Meghan Grace
That's pretty cool, but that's not me for 30 years. 40 years. Yeah, I want to see people like me doing things. So I think there can be a bit of both, right? Because like we do need to have prestigious faculty. We need to have credible experts on our campus. But who's to say that the students that are working in that faculty members lab can't be highlighted as well?

00:39:06:16 - 00:39:26:06
John Azoni
And I think like the people like the kind of the institutional politics affect a lot of the storytelling efforts that go on, you know, because we do annual engagements with with schools for video storytelling. And one of the things that I notice that schools use that for is to market particular programs. So it's like, all right, we got 12 stories we're going to tell one a month.

00:39:26:06 - 00:39:51:10
John Azoni
Let's do the nursing program, let's do the engineering program. But like beneath that, there's probably a lot of stories that don't necessarily have a sales or admissions impact necessarily not as directly, but that are really interesting. Like you're saying, like ways that people are, you know, impacting the world. And maybe that's just maybe that's like a great opportunity for an in-house videographer.

00:39:51:10 - 00:40:14:01
John Azoni
It's like kind of do some of that. But I even see I talked to a lot of in-house videographers that they just get sucked up in doing, like dumb stuff, like just like going to film some speech for somebody that nobody cares about, you know? But yeah, there is always like those really interesting stories kind of within the midst that don't have a direct financial impact that are really, really worth telling.

00:40:14:01 - 00:40:20:20
John Azoni
And I think if schools really just trusted that that was worth doing and put some focus on that, I think they would they would do really well.

00:40:21:07 - 00:40:45:14
Dr. Meghan Grace
I agree. And let me say I love the facts numbers and these scientist researchers, they are so critical. Like that is another very important piece of American higher education. We would not be in the modern society that we are without those two members. However, if we're trying to align with students, let's also include the student perspective on that faculty member about how that faculty member was a great mentor and very pivotal in their educational experience.

00:40:45:14 - 00:40:52:06
Dr. Meghan Grace
While we're also promoting the great work of that very esteemed faculty member, we can do both in our education. We can we can have good lines.

00:40:52:13 - 00:41:02:20
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. I agree. Are there examples or case studies of colleges doing a really good job at this? You mentioned Johns Hopkins. Are there others that are doing well at connecting with Gen-Z?

00:41:03:01 - 00:41:20:04
Dr. Meghan Grace
I had to do a little deep dive on this because I think that there are, but sometimes so like around us and one that I found because I wanted to find something that was more video format that I came across that I actually really loved. Purdue put out a video, I think it's about a year ago called What Can You Imagine at Purdue?

00:41:20:09 - 00:41:43:08
Dr. Meghan Grace
And when I say that this video in 90 seconds like almost moved me to tears but it was so well crafted in the sense that like it is on the more polished side, it is definitely built by a professional videographer, but it still speaks to Gen Z. I was like, Oh, they're on to something pretty good here because it's narrated by a young girl dreaming about her future in college.

00:41:43:08 - 00:42:00:00
Dr. Meghan Grace
So she's like maybe eight or nine in the video and talking about like what could I be? But it feels very much like how little kids talk about their future. Like, maybe I'll be a rocket scientist, maybe I'll study computers, maybe I'll study music, maybe I'll do all of those things. But they did a really good job of branding and being about like what?

00:42:00:00 - 00:42:20:07
Dr. Meghan Grace
You know, Purdue to be about a very strong science school, technological school that gives back to the local Indiana community while also having a really good student experience and like they played into like the whole like parent student element of it. So like that is one that I'm like, everyone could watch. It was like, so cute. I have, you know, I think Purdue's a great university, never been there, but I was like, Man, that was a good one.

00:42:20:16 - 00:42:50:01
Dr. Meghan Grace
In terms of like social strategy. I have really been impressed with the University of Iowa lately, actually, they have been doing a really good job, especially on Instagram, of the I think it helps when you've got someone like Caitlin Clark turning out a lot of like national media attention. But B, even just beyond that, recently they've been doing a good job with taking what feels like trending audio on Tik Tok and reels and making it polished, but also connecting again with that student, like what students are going to like about it.

00:42:50:09 - 00:43:04:16
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so like right now they're just having a really good time in football season. They talk about the wave. If you know anything about University of Iowa football, like they talk of the wave, the the Children's Center or the Children's hospital, but they definitely didn't miss an opportunity to lean into the Caitlin Clark hype when that was happening.

00:43:04:16 - 00:43:26:22
Dr. Meghan Grace
But they leaned into that hype because they knew how to talk online with their intended target audience. And they're doing a really good job. I think of like we talk about bridging their intended student target audience and prospective student target audience with the rest of their grid being really good about maintaining that level of professionalism that maybe older generations are going to want.

00:43:27:03 - 00:43:37:11
Dr. Meghan Grace
So I just think they're doing a good job of balancing multiple audiences and having kind of this brand ethos around the university while being entertaining, but not being cheesy or hokey. Yeah.

00:43:38:02 - 00:44:00:16
John Azoni
Yeah, that's great. Also check out University of Iowa. I've had episode 16 very early in this podcast. We had Emily Rich Wine from Purdue on and we did a whole episode on that, on that campaign and yeah, very remarkable, very high production value but moved a lot of people and I think that that was a great in doing a lot of research on what's working in higher ed video.

00:44:00:16 - 00:44:16:09
John Azoni
I wanted there to be a theme of high production value campaign ads like commercial like like what commercials are really hitting. And I dug and dug and dug and couldn't really find anything other than that one. Yeah. You know, it's.

00:44:16:10 - 00:44:37:07
Dr. Meghan Grace
And I think yeah, I think if you look at so like so there's sometimes you'll see it like if you're a football fan or a sports fan if you're watching any of the networks. Right. And they always have like that national ad campaign or like the on the regional conference channels where they'll be like at the University of Fill in the Blank, like this is what we're about and it's just cut and dry the same commercial, right?

00:44:37:07 - 00:44:54:01
Dr. Meghan Grace
It's like the bands playing and then it's football and then it's science and then it's students walking around campus and then we're back to football and we're back to the band. And then it's like, Go fill in the blank. Right? Like that is very like this stuff like this is going on the sports channel that only resonates if it's your university, right?

00:44:54:01 - 00:45:11:12
Dr. Meghan Grace
So I did my Master's that year reserves on when the Arizona one comes on, I'm like, This is the best university in the entire world. Like, I'm like, Yeah, yeah. But it's almost like you could put in any university into that format on that channel and it would still be the same thing. I think the Purdue one feels different because you're like, I am getting what it feels like to be on campus.

00:45:11:17 - 00:45:18:23
Dr. Meghan Grace
I am getting like what it feels like to go to a football game and to enjoy student life, but it doesn't feel stale, right?

00:45:19:05 - 00:45:40:03
John Azoni
Yeah, I think a lot of times some of these commercial campaigns, you know, really kick off a lot. Yeah, like you said, a lot because of the alumni. And you look at the comment section, there's one one just came out that has gone viral from Texas A&M, very, very well-produced commercial, a 62nd commercial. I think it's very it's very well done.

00:45:40:03 - 00:46:12:10
John Azoni
And I'm looking at, you know, there's like there's like 11 million something views as of today and then probably 100 or so comments. But most of the comments are alumni being like, yes, like this is that you know, I'm an Aggie or whatever. And like that's you know, that's just like school pride, you know, So so I think, yeah, it's a lot harder to bridge that gap for prospective students getting a commercial to resonate on what can be less so than what already was you know for for alumni If.

00:46:12:10 - 00:46:28:06
Dr. Meghan Grace
I can if I can go back to University of Iowa, I'm remembering they have like this, they have this really great real they put out recently. And again, it's not it's not going to be that highly produced ad that, you know, like what Purdue did there. But something that I'm like, this is just so like they did such a good job with this one.

00:46:28:11 - 00:46:45:13
Dr. Meghan Grace
It's in that same like street interview format that seems very common on TikTok where you're like, just like, let me talk to the random person with the tiny mike. But they did the one where they asked first year students to call their parents after the first week of classes and talk to them on speakerphone about their first week of classes.

00:46:45:13 - 00:47:03:09
Dr. Meghan Grace
And it was so authentic. Like the parents were like, Well, what did you like this week? And like, it just it it was zoning in on one. We know that Gen Z is very close to their parents, and two parents are a part of the campus experience even when they're not on campus. And it was really it was just darling, it was cute.

00:47:03:09 - 00:47:24:21
Dr. Meghan Grace
It was, what are you doing this weekend? And like one of the moms, like you're going to your first football game and one of the girls is like, I'm really excited to do the wave. And like, I just I'm learning to meet my professors and oh, yeah, I'm definitely out of that one hard class. And it just it felt exactly like what it would be like to call your parents, but it didn't feel force and it didn't feel overproduced.

00:47:24:21 - 00:47:31:09
Dr. Meghan Grace
And so I'm like, again, it was more than 30 seconds. So in today's world it is long form, but they did it really well.

00:47:31:20 - 00:47:51:22
John Azoni
I think that it's like that man on the street, Tiny Mike kind of style is super effective. I see it working very well. And then, especially if can create a moment like that I referenced on this podcast before be You Boston University, that they did on Valentine's Day. They they like went up to people and were like, Do you have a boyfriend or girlfriend?

00:47:51:23 - 00:48:20:13
John Azoni
You I call to tell him you love her, you know, And then it was like this sort of awkward but cutesy like moment of them colleague and then the boyfriend being like, okay, I love you too. But yeah, that one went viral too. I think. I think that's a great way to think about content. It's like not necessarily a trend, but what's an interesting question that you can pose to people on campus that are going to get authentic responses or take that a step further.

00:48:20:13 - 00:48:41:03
John Azoni
What's an authentic moment that you can co-create, you know, with them that's going to illustrate the value of whatever you want to illustrate the value of, Well, cool. So this has been great. I've really enjoyed having you on and learning more about this. I've learned a lot. So where can well, tell me quickly about your book. Where can people get this book?

00:48:41:03 - 00:48:41:21
John Azoni
What's the book about?

00:48:42:05 - 00:49:03:06
Dr. Meghan Grace
Yeah, so our new book, A Generation's In the World of Work is going to be available later this year. It'll be published through Routledge, which we're very excited about, but you'll be able to find it where everyone buys their books, Amazon and then usually your university library also like to shut them out as well. So the new book is a really it each it goes through career lifecycles.

00:49:03:06 - 00:49:22:06
Dr. Meghan Grace
So everything from career exploration and mindsets to training, development and leadership. And so allowing people to look at for different generations and how they operate differently. And then we've kind of we kind of wrap it up with like, how do you make all of this come together to create a stronger team? So Generation Z will definitely be a part of that.

00:49:22:06 - 00:49:29:00
Dr. Meghan Grace
As we know, they're already in the work place as well, so we're excited to release that later this year. So keep an eye out for that and stay tuned.

00:49:29:11 - 00:49:33:12
John Azoni
Where can people connect to DFA if they want to chat with you or have you come speak or Yeah.

00:49:33:21 - 00:49:53:00
Dr. Meghan Grace
Yeah. So the best place to find me is my website Megan and Grace dot com. That's Meg and Gracie. And then I'm pretty easily able to be found on LinkedIn and Instagram again at Megan Grace. So just Google me and you'll find me. But don't forget the age because you won't find me.

00:49:53:08 - 00:49:57:00
John Azoni
Yeah, Yeah. All right, cool. Well, thanks so much for being here. This is great.

00:49:57:06 - 00:49:58:19
Dr. Meghan Grace
Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me.